My Dad and I were in a bookstore. Looking through the shelves, he noticed a book on fundamentalism. His eyes dilated as he pointed to the book, saying proudly, “That’s what I am — a fundamentalist!” His eyes looked at me, daring for me to challenge him.
“Sure, okay, Dad. That’s great.”
And he was right. He’s a fundamentalist. He’s judgmental, mean, and thinks everyone is wrong except himself. He dislikes and distrusts educated people. He holds the Bible as the highest authority, yet knows nothing about how it came to be. He despises and mocks people in “cults,” but doesn’t realize he is in one himself.
He laughs at the stupidity of Mormons who think God gave a revelation to Joseph Smith through golden tablets, but believes God gave Moses a revelation through stone tablets. He sneers at the faith healers who speak in tongues and believe in prophecy, yet prays for people to be healed and wonders if we’re in the end times.
He’s well-liked in church, mostly because nobody really knows him. He’s nice and helpful at church. He’s a jerk at home. He wants to be listened to, but never wants to have a conversation, lest he be shown to be wrong. He finds fault in everything you do — you could spend the day cleaning the house, and he’d find the one stain you couldn’t get out in the carpet.
Yes, my Dad is a fundamentalist. And he’s damn proud of it.
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31 Comments
Man, that really sucks! Seriously man. And the sad thing is that there are a lot more “Christians like that, I am really sorry that one of them had to be your own father.
When I deconverted my parents and most other family members were incredibly supportive. My Dad was actually really relieved because I used to be a borderline fundy. Now we think much more alike. I hope your Dad chills out some day.
my dad’s hypocritical like that, only he’s a scientist at work, and a ‘believer’ at home.
@Nick: Thanks!
@Mike: I hope so, too. Glad things worked out well for you.
I have a pretty crazy creationist cousin. Though not as fundametal as your father. They are simply too hard to talk to :(.
I just found your blog. Thank you so much for encouraging others to ‘think outside the Jesus box’. The world needs more Daniel Floriens.
I just found your website; it’s pretty much awesome. I’m 22 and living at home, just for another month or so. I have only recently become comfortable in calling myself a non-Christian amongst my Baptist family, so I suspect my story and thoughts are very similar to your own, except shorter time-wise. Consider yourself bookmarked, sir.
You have my sympathy. It’s difficult dealing with a mind so tightly bound in such close proximity. Be careful.
Like the blog, mate!
Found my way here when PZ linked to you from Pharyngula..
My mom and her parents are devout Catholics, so I always feel rather uncomfortable getting into religious debates with them, me being a “”"devout”"” atheist, recovering from a catholic upbringing.
The other side of the family is German Lutheran. I just keep my mouth shut around that lot :)
Daniel,
I’m finding your site very uplifting. I too was raised as a “Christian child” by my mother, and it was through a similar, slow process of education that I now find myself a member of the Bright constituency.
I’m very interested in the “New Atheism” movement as it’s being called, but what I see lacking is support for those who are still in the church but can’t see a way out. As you are probably well aware, the church can provide a very strong support network for people, and the fact that whole families are in the church as well makes it incredibly hard for a lot of individuals to see a life beyond Xtianity.
I still have a lot of family in the church, and I’ve got to the point now where I really don’t know what to say to them. I hate to see them living a lie but I can’t offer them anything to balance out the huge upheaval in their personal lives that they would certainly face if they were to “come out” as non-believers.
@Barry: Thanks, that’s encouraging to hear. And I know how you feel!
My father’s the exact same way, though he’d never admit to being a fundamentalist (he sneers at them the same way he would the others, while being one). He sneers at everything in Islam without noticing it is a copy cat of Christianity. He’s essentially a fundamentalist without any real power so he doesn’t say what Falwell says (and at least doesn’t believe gays to be scum, etc.)
What has helped me is that whenever I mention the atrocities of the bible he’ll challenge them, and every time I prove they are in there. It changes from “you don’t know what you’re talking about” to “Well, nobody practices that anymore! Can you name anybody that does that?”
No lies.
Weird. I didn’t realize I had a brother, but I’m fairly certain you are talking about my father there.
Sounds exactly like my dad when I was growing up. Then my mom walked out on him, and me and my brothers left. Then he realized he was an ass and now he’s pretty cool. Still a fundie christian though.
Hello there, it looks like the actual reason for your disappointment with faith is a “father’s wound”. How did you perceive God when you were Christian? think about and read the description of your father.
Greetings from a scientist who is a Christian!
@Miluch:
That’s an interesting theory, but wrong. My father became a Christian because of my influence. Before that, he was just a godless jerk.
I perceived God when I was a Christian as holy, omniscient, loving, sovereign, mighty, wonderful, beautiful, omnipresent, forgiving, a friend, and much more. He was my “all in all.” Like it or not, I was a normal Christian, just like you.
Daniel,
You hit it just right. This is a nice post. I like the sincerity and the keen observation you displayed, looking at your own dad. There are many Christians as fundamental as your dad, that’s really true. And that’s one embarrassing aspect of so-called Christianity today. Hypocrisy.
But the way other Christians act doesn’t deter me from keeping the Christian Faith. Hypocrisy is a subtle matter indeed, but it all boils down to what’s in your heart, what your motives are.
I understand why you left, and if you have found your true peace, I wish you well. There is no sense in debating which is right and which is not, when both opposing parties firmly believe they have the Truth.
~Sula
Hi Daniel, thanks for your answer. Actually, since I became a Christian, I always heard about the God you describe, and somehow experienced bits of His love, might, presence and so on. I struggled however most of the time with unwanted same-sex attraction. I gave up, went to live the lifestyle, and simply left the faith Christian. Anyway, after a while, I came back to my senses, and discovered that most of my own brokenness was rooted in a broken relationship with my dad and my mom. I was actually angry at my dad, and though I believed in a God (as you described), very deep in my heart my perception of this God was that he was as far away as I thought my dad was. So, in many ways, I shifted the blame of my own brokenness to God. Anyway, I came back to my Father’s house, and even got the relationship with my dad restored some years before he died.
Too short of a space to tell a lifestory! Greetings,
Mil… first off, are you Yoda’s gay brother, or is english just a second language?
I joke. But serious things will be referred to:
There’s a theory that a poor relationship with your father leads one to atheism. There’s also a theory that a poor relationship with your father leads you to seek out an all-loving father-god. So that’s one of the things that no one knows. I’ve seen evidence both ways.
Mil, you seem a little confused about who you want to be. On the one hand, you refer to “living the lifestyle”, which I assume is a reference to the gay lifestyle, and choosing between that and christianity. Why not both? Many denominations accept people who love both god and people the same gender. Christ’s core message is love for god and one’s fellow man, and many preachers are fine if people take that a little more literally. Many also are not. And they are not true christians, because true christians don’t define themselves by hate.
The other thing I want to mention is that you became a christian, and then sought G-d’s love. Why did you become a christian without a personal experience of G-d? Was it an effort to find a mindset which would help you fight these unwanted attractions? I recommend not fighting it. G-d presumably made you this way for a reason. Truly accepting G-d’s will is to accept what he made you as.
Daniel,
Very interesting blogposts. I can definitely relate to your story. Been there and done all that. Check out my blog “About Fundamentally Misguided.” My heart goes out to all who have been hurt by Christian fundamentalism. It is a very scary belief system, to say the least.
Grace
Wazza: obviously, my native language isn’t English ;-) Therefore, my blog isn’t in that language! thanks for your “insights” … honestly, I’m tired of people thinking what is best for me or what should I think or believe or do. You wrongly assume that same-sex-attraction equals being gay.
Kind regards,
Yoda’s ssa struggler brother.
Wazza, I answered with my wordpress identity *refreshingfromheaven*. In order to improve communication, you can address me in Spanish, French or Dutch as well if you consider my English to be insufficient.
Kind regards,
Makes me glad I was raised an Atheist…
Wow. I know so many people like that. Including my parents. That really hits home!
Yep, that was my dad, too. He died in 1973. What’s sad and scary is that the cults of fundamentalism have gained so many supporters in the intervening years. In 1973, it was unusual to be a born-again christian, but today? Today we have a warmonger president who attacked another country because his invisible man in the sky told him to do it. This, of course, was in response to other people flying jets into tall buildings because their invisible man told them to do it. And, of course, we are told that both invisible men love peace. Absolute lunacy!
Good for you! Keep the blog going. Belief can be a good thing, but so many people get it wrong, screwing it up for self and others. The world is a strange place. You just don’t know what you’re going to get from people. For example, I grew up with a grandfather who was a Lutheran minister and a model of tolerance. He used to say, “Beware of people with a cause!” The fundamentalists, i.e. mean, intolerant, judgmental people, would usually evoke pity from him. And when my cousin returned from Vietnam and announced that he was an atheist, grandpa said “well, I can see why you’d think that way.” Nothing more.
We need more tolerant people in the world, and fewer fundamentalists.
Boy am I lucky that I only had a mean grandmother, the rest of the family was sane. In fact my grandfather loved to suck in the Holy Rollers who came knocking at the door and then drop books on evolution in their laps and demand they explain fossil finds. LOL
I’m sorry your dad is mean and judgmental. I never met my dad. That used to bother me. Now that I’m older I think its probably for the best.
Wow, this describes not only my father, but my mom as well.
Atheism in Alabama is not the greatest thing ever.
Keep up the good fight man.
Judging by the little you write about your father, I wouldn’t consider him a fundamentalist, as in the sense of religious fundamentalist. Your description of his behaviour could fit millions of other fathers, who may not necessarily be religious. His beliefs are fundamentally irrational, that’ all.
You’re being overly harsh on him.
Wow, kinda makes sense why you would blog about it if your dad stuffed it in your head for years. That’s not cool.
There are christian jerks and there are non-christian jerks. The problem is that religion gives being a judgmental, intolerant wingnut some legitimacy. You can do anything if you’re doing it in the name of god, and often get away with it. Look at the mega-preachers – they con the elderly out of their last dollar and then purchase diamond-encrusted private jets. Your dad seems to hold on to religion because it supports his view that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Instant credibility in christian circles. Sad. My dad isn’t a jerk, but he’s a fundamentalist pastor (retired). He was a terrible father when I was a child though – unpredictable, violent, negligent. This was because he said his primary obligation was to the church, not his family. He also said that it’s ok to hurt children as long as you don’t kill them, and you do it in god’s name. He has since changed his tune on these things, and feels guilty for the past, but he’s still a fundy. That will never change. I really feel for you, Daniel.