By Jesus, the supposed God-man, taught his disciples to love their enemies and to do good to those who hated them. He taught them to forgive the sins of others. He taught them to treat others how they want to be treated.
Does Jesus follow his own teaching?
He called the scribes and Pharisees sons of the devil, fools, hypocrites, serpents, and white-washed tombs. Whenever he decides to returns to earth (which is “soon,” as they’ve been saying for 20 centuries), he comes back with a vengeance — “with a sword in his mouth” and a “robe dipped in blood” along with an army “to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron” (Revelation 19).
Nice guy, right? Obviously knows how to love his enemies in a way beyond our comprehension.
Does God follow his own teaching (or his son’s, if you rather)?
When an unbeliever dies, and when he finally sees evidence for God and repents for not believing, will God let him into heaven? Or will the unbeliever be sent to hell for eternal torment, like the Bible says?
When a man who hated God dies and stands before God, will God love his enemy and do good unto him? Or will he tell him, “Depart from me, O sinner, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!”
Did God love his enemies when he destroyed the entire world with a flood? When he killed all the firstborn of Egypt? When he had Israel stone a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Num. 15)? When he killed 90,000 Midianites (Num. 31)? 10,000 inconvenient Canaanites who had Israel’s land first (Judges 1)? 50,000 Benjaminites (Judges 20)? 1,000,000 Ethiopians (2 Chr. 14)?
How does God love his enemies when he slaughters them? How does God do good to those who hate him when he sends them to hell to be tortured for all eternity?
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64 Comments
“in a way beyond our comprehension”.
You’ve hit on the key phrase right there, or so I am told whever I come across something in the bible that makes absolutely no sense. Apparently my understanding is so limited compared to god’s that even when it appears he is being hypocritical it is just me being dense.
Isn’t Jesus the loving one? ‘God’ always came across as the wrathful jealous one.
I know that, somehow, Christianity counts as monotheistic but that doesn’t make any sense. (GOD IS HIS OWN FATHER. DIVINE INCEST. Or, multiple gods.) I’m sure I misunderstood something.
This blog is fantastic.
Well, maybe God isn’t consistent because the “Bible” is a made up collection of bronze age myths from a bunch of different sources?
How about the double standards of the church?
“It’s ok to believe that the bible was wrong about the talking snake. And the whole “man from dirt” thing wasn’t meant to be taken literally. And forget about the fact that the bible teaches that slavery is acceptable.
But when the bible says that the creator of the universe impregnated a virgin with himself by means of a holy ghost, and then sent himself to willingly be killed so that thousands of years later we could avoid burning forever with a fallen angel, when the bible says we should transform bread and wine into the body of that man and eat it once a week, it is spot-the-fuck on.”
@Dave: That’s really my point, but perhaps I should have made that more explicit.
In my opinion christianity and the “gospel of jesus”, or let’s say the revolutionary idea of equality and charity/altruism have long ago parted it’s ways. I point towards the numberous apostles (over 80 expected), who have intentionaly NOT been included in the bible. As an example i mention the gospel of thomas or the gospel of judas, which give a different portrait of jesus – more human and realistic, as i heard. The decision to potray jesus as an untouchable and godlike figure supported the idea of leadership and basically inequality which helped the existing hierarchies to preserve. Jesus ideas were distored and used to control and oppress the masses right from the beginning! The dark-ages exemplify religion-based fear and were the direct result of distorted christian philosophy. And even today it is still mostly a cult of personality. People focus to much on the figure instead of what he was actually saying. To be funny i would say: If he wouldn’t have risen from the dead, he would probably role in his grave!
sword in his mouth… I wondered what that was on the cover of Apocalypse Delayed (I’m studying the JWs right now)
God never has been merciful. Look around and it’s pretty easy to see that. You don’t even need to go to the Bible.
And God is also a liar:
Remember the story of adam and eve… god creates this paradise for adam, creates a woman for him, and tells them both: you can fruit eat from any tree except from the tree of knowledge… lest you surely die.
And then eve promptly eats some from that tree, and so does adam. But guess what – neither die! So god lied to them!
are Adam and Eve still alive today? Does anyone live forever?
Then I guess they died, thus God told the truth.
I promise you I will give you a Million Dollars after you leave town.
Obviously Adam and Eve did die, they died after 900 years or so, thats what the Bible says. When God said “you will surely die”, it didn’t mean I am going to pull our my gun and bust a cap…it meant that they will die because of sin, and they did, as all humans do
If I said “The day you jump off a cliff you shall surely die” would you assume I am going to kill you?
ooooooga: actually, they did die… but it’s still a lie, because God said “For on the day that you eat thereof, ye shall surely die”
and Adam lived for 930 years. No word on how long Eve lived. But they had kids when he was 130, so they lived a LONG time after eating the fruit.
Perhaps it was the benefits of a diet of fruit that helped them live so long. It certainly keeps the internal workings working, yah?
I think they lived so long because of their utter lack of knowledge about germs, disease, and medicine. They were natural, not into this unnatural science stuff. ;)
My father avoids hospitals like the plague. He believes hospitals to be the leading cause of death in North America, and the statistics bear him out: Look how many people die in hospitals.
Just out of curiosity have you ever read “Autobiography of a Yogi” and got a Hindu monks take on Jesus?
You can actually read it online here:
http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/
This is really the central point of contention with Christianity isn’t it? ‘If there is this good God why does he let people suffer so much etc etc’ That debate will never be fully resolved in the face of the unfathomable evils that we humans witness.
All I can offer at the present, that is 4:04pm on a Friday, is to suggest that were we to fully comprehend eternity and what is at stake if we do indeed live forever after death, the most abhorrent evil would seem trivial by comparison.
Emotionally I cannot grasp this, but I’m pretty sure it’s the logical answer.
I have really been confused about my faith lately. Whoever said “no good deed goes unpunished” really knew what they were talking about. I am not perfect, but consider myself a good person. I did everything possible to be a great wife, yet my husband had an affair and when our children were young and I had no job, he left me for another woman. I had to take the first job that came my way which was a nightmare. The office manager was straight out of hell. She new my situation yet she was vicious towards me. Every day I would come home from work, lock myself in my room and cry and pray that the next day would be better. Well, the next day was worse than the day before. Within 3 years, my daughter fell and broke her arm, my youngest son nearly died of meningitis, my oldest son attempted suicide. At the time my youngest almost died, I had just started a new job…I spent the first week at the hospital at my son’s bedside and my dad stayed with my other two children (their dad refused to help). I lost two weeks pay because I had just started the job, but I kept faith that God would get us through with my ex’s child support. I was home with my son for a second week while he recovered and my ex shoved a paper in my face saying he was slightly overpaid on child support and he did not have to give me anything. So much for having faith. Then, my ex was behind on his child support and I prayed that my ex provide some financial help and told God we really needed it. Well, I phoned the child support hotline to find out that my ex sent in $300 and I was thanking God while I waited on my bus for work. Well, I was a bit too quick with the “thank you” bcause by the time I arrived home, in the mail was a letter saying he was fighting me to regain his visitation. (I kept him from seeing the children because he ignored them when he had them, he and his girlfriend smoked around them knowing all three had asthema and they saw the two of them having sex together. Well, I had to turn over all but $25 of the $300 he submitted. Again, so much for faith. He has told his family vicious lies about me. When I was going for another job, I put it completely in God’s hands asking him to let me know beyond a shadow of a doubt what job was meant to be for me. I was interviewed for a construction secretary job that I though would be perfect, but that was a no go. Then, a dentist from my church phoned me and offered me a position as an office manager. She was willing to pay the $15 an hour I was seeking. What I knew of her, she was nice and I did ponder the idea of going to school in the dental field. Since the dentist persued me and everything else fell into place, one would think this was the job God hand picked for me. WRONG, she was hell on wheels! She went through 6 office managers in 1 1/2 years! So, I looked for another job. I found one that was a block closer that only paid $12 per hour, but it seemed like it would be a real nice place to work, and I would have had the job, but the girl that was supposed to leave decided she wanted to stay after all. What did I get in its place, a job that paid $12 an hour that was 17 miles away as opposed to only 3 miles away. Doesn’t sound like it was the best thing, but that’s all God offered me. within 14 mos, I was laid off due to the collapse of the mortgage industry. I see my nephew who sits on his butt and is offered one excellent job after another without so much as putting in an application. This guy does not go to church and I doubt he even gets on his knees and thanks God for the blessings he has. On a Sunday in June of this year, after greeting at church for a 1/2 hour, being a eucharistic minister during mass then passing out communion to the shut-ins at a nursing home for two hours, I came back to the church with a flat tire. Then, two days later I was to take my daughter to have dental surgery and I had to cancel those plans because my mother who had conjestive heart failure, kidney failure and diabetes, fell and split her head open so we spent the day at the hospital until she was admitted. Three days later, I lost my job and two weeks after that, my mother died! I’m sorry, but I always try to do what God would want me to do including mowing the grass for 1 year for my two neighbors who had their loved ones dying of cancer. I don’t expect a bag of money to drop from the sky for my deeds, but both neighbors spit in my face after I provided them kindness. I believe in treating people the way I would want to be treated but it seems that the ones I am the nicest too are always the first ones to spit in my face. When I was working, we were allowed to collect 1 hour overtime per day. I needed more and prayed on the way to work please God, let them allow me just a little more overtime. When I arrived at work, not only wasn’t I granted more overtime, but the overtime we were permitted to collect came to an end! It seems everytime I pray for something, the worst possible thing always happens to me. When I pray for my son to return to his faith, he is driven further form it! I don’t get it God….I though if what we asked for is for the good, you will allow it. I guess that’s as long as it’s anyone but me asking because I say yes to you and all I get back in every case is a BIG FAT NO!!!!! It’s not easy, but I’m still clinging to my faith.
I’m sorry for everything bad that has happened in your life, but no one ever said that following God would e easy. Check out Job. He lost everything but stayed faithful, and God blessed him for that. Keep trusting in him.http://generatelife.com/home.asp
Yes, Job is an excellent book for showing what an evil ass-hat the biblical god is.
“a confused believer”, I don’t know if you’ll read this and even if you do I know nothing I can say can fix anything that happened to you… I’m so sorry for everything you’ve been through. Why do you continue to be faithful to a “god” that has been so horrible to you? How can you believe the bible is true when all this has happened to you? I don’t see any reason to continue worshipping a god that has never done anything for you, and never even given you a reason to believe in him.
a confused believer: Wow. You have got to be one of the most stubborn people I have ever heard of. A lot of people would just give up on God after what you’ve been through.
I’m not entirely sure how to proceed from here. Congratulations, I guess: you’ve gotten a good taste of life outside the shiny box of Biblical promises. You love God and praise him every day for the gifts he’s given you, and you just keep losing things. But you keep at it, because you know that if you ever cease to be loyal and grateful there will be eternal punishment.
That was one of the things that got me in the end. God is supposed to be a being of endless love and compassion for every living thing; humans are so limited that they can only feel a tiny fraction of the love God feels. Yet in my tiny, limited heart, I have enough love for every human on Earth that, were I in God’s shoes, I would never want to punish them by tormenting them for all eternity (“far longer than we can comprehend”, remember) – no matter how heinous they were in life. Forcing them to go through years of torment in order to earn my favor when I could just as easily smite out every evil thing in the universe would be at best petty, at worse downright evil.
Do you want to worship a God like that? You be the judge.
@Confused Beliver
Sister Asalam Alikum (May peace be unto you.)
please visit http://www.islamtomorrow.com/converts/
wasalaam & Kind Regards
Yasser Mahmood
@Yasser
Not sure how islam would cure Confused Believer’s woes, unless you guys are willing to give her a bag of money.
I thought I would give a simple example of what a Christian would believe. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there are two basic questions being asked here. How can a God who loves his enemy send people who hate him to hell and how can he kill people.
I could go for a while on this, but I think the main problems we have here come with the misinterpretation of God’s love. Some atheists want to believe that a punishing God can’t be a loving God, but this is not true. Actually, for a God to be pure and holy he must punish people for their sins. It doesn’t mean he rejoices in this. Imagine the idea of sending one of your children into suffering for the rest of eternity. Still, because the Christian God is pure, he can’t allow people into heaven who have committed sin. Because everyone sins during their lifetime, they must refute that sin through Jesus before they come to be judged. To reject Jesus during your lifetime is to carry sin into the afterlife where it is already bound to you.
For the final point, God can kill people because God is righteous. This is, he doesn’t kill in anger or jealousy, but because somebody deserved to die. I understand this sounds it is completely skipping over the argument, but to attack somebody on his purity who by his very definition is pure isn’t exactly a productive undertaking.
To give this final thought a little extra backing, it is not a sin to kill. It is a sin to murder. One of the things the murder generally doesn’t include is warfare. Secondly, God doesn’t feel remorse when somebody dies their ‘earthly’ death. Life on earth is just a stepping stone.
I know this is a lot and I’ve probably made a million errors and left out large sections of an argument, but I want to give a little bit about how I feel so maybe this can have some more meaning for some of you.
When I say I am a believe, I am actually saying I believe that there is reasonable evidence of a God, and, through my experience, I would say that he is most likely the Christian God. Nothing is certain for me, which is part of the reason why I am reading over these pages. So I leave you with one call: Honestly investigate Christianity with the same passion you have investigated atheism with. Open yourself up and ask God to show himself to you if he is really out there. In other words, be a skeptic. Finally, realize that both sides are valid arguments, and thus making fun of the idea of a God purely by the notion that one can not exist is ‘putting the blinders on’. Peace.
Florien’s criticisms are well aimed at traditional Protestant theology about Hell. But is that an indictment against the Bible? Has Florien not heard of Universalism? (The theology that Hell’s “fire” actually purifies all in it, so that all will be released.) If Universalism is Biblical, all Florien’s points here fizzle. Has Florien rejected it out of hand, considering its existence not even worth acknowledging? Upon what basis?
I have concluded that Universalism is half right: some will remain in Hell forever, but not because God will hold them there, but because their hearts will be so hard that they will never want to be anywhere near God! If it is possible for a human to turn away from God for even an instant, what will change over eternity to make it unimaginable that he would deny God forever?
Far from God’s patience lasting only a tiny sliver of eternity, and then giving way to greater cruelty than all earth’s tyrants thrown together, thrown away from the presence of God, while God asks us to forgive “seventy times seven”, God’s Shed Blood is offered for all eternity even to hearts who “reward evil for good, and hatred for [God’s] love”, contemptuous of what God suffered for them – and all of this “in the presence of the lamb and in the presence of the holy angels”, Rev 14:10.
It turns out that our tears for others’ “sins” (or, “bad choices”) is one requirement for entering Heaven, Ezekiel 9:4, and for all eternity we will pray for the lost, and witness to them as much as they will allow.
It turns out we have no Bible reason to regard Hell “fire” as literal fire. God treats it as a metaphor, though of something arguably worse: to have done to us what we have done to others, double. Not only what we did, but also what we would have done had God allowed us the opportunity.
Here is just the first of “12 Bible Reasons to Doubt Tradition”, from my book “Hell’s Aim: Heaven’s Loving Purpose”, posted for free at http://www.Saltshaker.US, click on Bible Studies:
“1. When the Bible talks about a purpose for fire, it is correction, Hebrews 12, a synonym of purification, Hebrews 12:29, Malachi 3:2, 1 Peter 4:12, Acts 2:3. Fire consumes dross from gold, and chaff from wheat, Matthew 3:12, which is an aspect of purification. The Greek word for fire is even spelled “pur”. Never does the Bible specify that God uses any kind of fire, anywhere or at any time, without this purpose. Certainly the doctrine, that each and every person who goes to Hell will remain there forever, implies that Hell never rehabilitates or purifies, since it would seem unreasonable for God to keep someone in Hell who has been purified. But the assumption that Hell’s purpose is pure torture, without any potential purification or rehabilitation of any kind, imposes on theology a purpose never given by God and contrary to the only purposes God ever gave.”
Concerning some of the wars Florien lists: I am amazed that Florien thinks it unjustified of God to defend Israel against bloodthirsty aggressors and ruthless perverted criminals. Does Florien think God should have stood by and let the innocent die? 2 Chron 14, Judg 20? He lists Judges 1, in which King Adonibezek freely confesses that his punishment by Israel was just! Can’t Florien give God credit for restraint, when He let Egypt slay the male children of Israel for 80 years before He, only once, slew the firstborn of Egypt in order to deliver Israel from their tyranny?
That upside down criticism of Israel is what we still see today! Hamas fires thousands of rockets before Israel responds once, and then it is Israel that the world jumps on!
There are so many things to say to you as a christian. But take this one, for example – if I am god, and I create billions of people, that I love as my own children, and know that 99.99% of them will burn in hell eternally because they didn’t “believe”, that is evil. I have a child, and there is nothing he could do that would make me want him to suffer. Real love is not about justice. It’s about empathy.
Very interesting that Daniel F., even with all of this “Christian” background, completely misunderstands what Jesus was in fact doing. How can the fact that Jesus verbally condemned man’s sin mean that He is not loving? Oh, to the contrary! Though Jesus called “sin” “sin”, He also came to give His life for such sinners. Daniel F. can come up with a lot of great arguments against Christ, but this one is childish. He assumes that if God is not all love, He is not love at all. Daniel F forgets, however, that God is also just. If God is 100% just and punishes sin, yet shows 100% love by allowing sinners to be forgiven, if only they come to Jesus, I see no reason to believe that Jesus’ condemnation of sin meant that He was not loving.
Daniel F also makes the assumption that God’s love should/ought to be shown to everyone, all the time. Is that not a faulty assumption? God can not leave sin unpunished. Seems like a dilemma! Now, consider Christ. Christ offers a way for the justice of God to be satisfied, but also for the love of God to be displayed.
Daniel F is desperately looking for ways to mock the Christian faith. Not to simply ask questions, or reason through difficult questions, but to mock Christians in an unreasoning manner, full of sarcasm and wit. Yet he would prey upon any Christian who so thoughtlessly condemned his own beliefs. Makes me say hmmmmmm…
Yes, I forgot one of the simplest beliefs of the Christian faith. You got me!
The description of god in the bible is a great role model for abusive men. Jealous, controlling, obey-or-you-will-die, unpredictable (sometimes loving, sometimes murderous). It’s also a great example of how to legitimize tyranny. Anyone who “loves” a god like this must be mentally ill.
The problem with ’sin’ is you have to first be able to define what it is. Who determines what sin is? God gave the Ten Commandments, so I assume that breaking those would emulate sin. But why are some under the impression that a human can add on to what their ‘divine God’ calls sin?
The mysteries of sin and salvation – in which universality is to be found has suffered from a long history of neglect. The Bible gives a two fold structure of sin and salvation – it exposes the work of sin at the same time that it unfolds the plan of salvation. So then, is sin exposed by salvation? Or does sin not exist until ’salvation’? Either way, what is the point of salvation if you are ignorant to sin? Is sin merely a singular structure/system driven toward a counter identity? Is it tangible or created? Can we physically destroy it or accept it? Is sin the manifestation of inner emotions and grudges held by one of the founding fathers of Christianity? Or is it the shadow of God; God’s counter identity?
If you are unable to say exactly what sin is, then what are you saved from?
God doesn’t send you to hell unless you reject Him. That’s what’s incredible, He gives everyone a choice, life or death, heaven or hell, blessings or cursings.
The only thing you left out was that God is a jealous God. The people sited in these references were detestable. An abomination. God is also just.
Double standard? I don’t see it the way you creatively post it. I see God as Holy and God as just.
done.
Would you like it if one of your ex-girlfriends could send you to hell for rejecting her?
“God doesn’t send you to hell unless you reject Him. That’s what’s incredible, He gives everyone a choice, life or death, heaven or hell, blessings or cursings.”
Yeah, it’s incredible…incredibly stupid, petty, vile, sadistic, and egocentric to the point of megalomaniacal.
“Choose me or eternal suffering” isn’t really a choice…
“God cannot leave sin unpunished”. He sure the hell can (no pun intended). Quit defending God you morons- he’s big enough he can defend himself. You make it sound like God has his hands tied behind his back here. Can’t leave sin unpunished. puh-leeze. If he’s the guy in charge he can do whatever he wants, which really is what it comes down to. He *wants* to punish. Odd thing is, God doesn’t seem capable of separating the sin from the sinner, does he? If he’s so big on punishing sin, then put sin into hell and leave people out of it. Duh.
RA-men.
The double standard of christianity really screwed me up. I didn’t know if I was lower than a worm, a sinner from birth, or a wonderful person made in the image of god. I didn’t know if god loved me or wanted to punish me (or “test” me if I was being a good christian, like Job in the bible). I didn’t know if pastor-dad might try to kill me if god told him to, like the story of Isaac in the bible, just to test his faith. I thought I was missing something, because I tried so hard to believe the stories, but I didn’t. I tried so hard to love god, but I didn’t. I prayed and prayed, and nothing changed. I was taught that you just ask Jesus into your heart, and you are transformed. Well, my transformation came when I realized that christianity was a fairy tale, and got some intensive counseling. Now I am “reborn”. I no longer suffer from the fear and guilt that strangled me most of my life. I no longer have abusive partners (who act like the god of the old testament). Instead of trying to love an invisible, non-existent being in the sky, I now love myself. This has enabled me, finally, to truly love others (which I couldn’t do when I was always afraid – I was numb for years). I am now able to give out of a full heart, rather than out of guilt or obligation. This is what being “born again” is all about – ridding ourselves of destructive superstition, and trying to milk every moment we can out of this life. It’s all we really know we have. Quit trying to live for the after-life – NOBODY KNOWS what happens after we die. And if you say you do, you are either lying or terribly misled. Enjoy life. It’s too short to waste.
Hey guys,
I wrote this on my blog (hopefully the link should appear on my name), but I’ll just re-produce it here.
I call this the atheist paradox. It goes like this. Atheists tend to put forward two main premises against Christianity, both which resound through the whole of Unreasonable Faith:
1) Marxist premise. God/religion is the opiate of the masses, and emotional/escapist fabrication that we invented as a response to the harsh realities of human life.
2) The Malevolent-God premise (i.e. this post). God is not a loving God as we claim to believe him, but one full of moral inconsistencies in the Bible (refer to above) revealing an evil character.
This is a paradox because the more you forward one claim, the less the other makes sense. If our God is really evil and morally inconsistent, and the Bible was fabricated by an illuminati-like group of people, why would they want to write / collate such stories to ruin their credibility? Isn’t that just poor fiction?
If you can’t solve this paradox, then Keller’s claim of atheism being more of an emotional argument than a rational argument makes more sense :)
Looking forward to your responses. I’ll try and come back here, but maybe it’d best if you comment on the original link (http://givemesometruth.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/an-atheistic-paradox/) if you want a quick reply from me.
Alistair – the paradox you propose is only a paradox if proposed by the same person at the same time. God cannot be both an invention and evil. However, it is perfectly consistent to argue against the existence of God, and as a seperate argument to point out that, regardless of his existence or otherwise, the Biblical description is that of a malevolent rather than benevolent entity.
Yeah, it’s not a paradox at all.
We are making two assertions regarding your god:
1) He does not exist, or at the very least, there is no evidence of his existence.
2) The made-up god you worship, based on the bible, is a vile creation. The act of worshiping this creature, made up or not, makes humanity worse, not better.
Cthulu was invented by a writer. No one thinks he’s real. But if I began acting as if he was real, and sacrificing people to appease him, it would be perfectly reasonable to say, “Cthulu isn’t even real! And he’s a vile disgusting god of chaos who wants to devour anything with warm blood? Why would you want to worship that?”
ok i am not sorry to say this
jesus lied
he lied to a family
he told them their dead daughter who had indeed died
was not dead but was only asleep
no
she was dead!!!!!!!
not asleeep
You are right she was dead, asleep is sometimes used in the bible for death. Lazarus was also dead for some time but refered to as asleep (John 11: 11-14
janet
you are a friend indeed
i too know excatly what you talk about
i myself was there
am really trying to recover
The double standard of christianity really screwed me up. I didn’t know if I was lower than a worm, a sinner from birth, or a wonderful person made in the image of god. I didn’t know if god loved me or wanted to punish me (or “test” me if I was being a good christian, like Job in the bible)
i literally sometimes feel i am job
all i know
christianity has really messed me up
emotionally
i try to recover
but the church
does more harm than good
i am not sorry
but i got really fed up at this finger pointing when things went wrong in my life
and was assumed it was my fault
and poor choices i made
i was told i cheat myself out of blessings with doubt
ok whats with the idea of god showering us with blessings everday
where was this lie introduced
when something good happens to me i am usually involved
all i know
when i pray
i sure as heck do not expect the drastic opposite
i feel like god is sticking it to
but then again
i thought about it
god proves im right
and hes wrong
if i saw something bad againt him
its like he causes something meaningful to me not to happen
im no fan of god
and do believe god wants nothing but to punish me
christians have a comeback for everything
and the finger is always pointed at us
ok so if something goes right in our lives
we had nothing to do with it
i disagree!!!!!
a bible study leader told the group
how often do some people give up just 2 blocks short
i will never understand the street metaphor
god was going to bless us
but we somehow gave up
hmm
so its ok for people to move on and let go
but not give up
hello
moving on is giving up!!!!!!!!
Kathryn
I am truly sorry for the pain that you are going through.
It pains me to see a person so hurt by people that shouldnt even be teaching the bible or Gods will.
you are not lower than a worm. Most diffinetly wonderfuly made. Yes a sinner ( as we all are ) Yes there is testing involved ( nothing more than you can handle )
Keep in mind things not all things that you would call going wrong are nessasarily from God. There are other powers at work.
I agree many churches do more harm than good.
Most people that point a finger at your choices probably need to remove the redwood tree from there eye first.
The showering with blessings idea comes for faulty teaching. ( God has a wonderful plan for your life, just come to him and everything will be a bed of roses ) That is not what the bible says. It does say you will be hated and persecuted. Good things will come to you but its life is not going to be all warm and fuzzy all the time. It does sound like you have more then your share of bad. I urge you to keep praying. I will for you.
your right that street metaphore is stupid. If God is going to bless you he will no matter what block you are on. He also knows what you can handle and will not test you with things that will push you beyond what is in your power to endure. The things in your life that seem like evil are probably just that.
when you pray make sure you ask for forgiveness as the first thing. read the lords prayer and pray like that not word for word but use it as a standard for how to pray. We need to be right with God before we ask God for what it is we need. Remember God knows what you need an answer to prayer isnt always what is expected.
God be with you Kathryn
i was born with a birth defect
i cannot biologically have children
i was told god wanted me to adopt
and made my choice easier?
i am single and 34
have never dated
some said god called me to be single
to totally focus on him
and be content with him
really
christians have hurt me
and i mean deeply hurt me and personally attacked me
and some say they were trying to help
bs!!!!!!
christians are the number cause of atheism!!!!!
the bible also says that those without the ears to hear what he has to say will never hear it.
in other words, you may interpret any of the words in the way you wish.. that is one thing god does give us… it’s not just the ability to choose, but another path to choose from. you may either choose the path of evil or of good. up to you.
that is your freedom, do with it what you will
I have to say for sure that four things are certain after reading all the posts.. life, grief, death, and a belief there is a GOD.
You ask “Does Jesus follow his own teachings?” The answer is evident when reading the bible. Yes,I believe he followed his own teachings and that of his Father God.He does not criticize others for what they teach, he basically criticized them for how they teach. It’s the ‘do as I say, not as I do’ analogy that people receive criticism for even to this day. Lest not us forget that He was human when teaching.
Jesus also reminds you that actions speaks louder than words. So it is best that one follows the bible teaching that tells us to let your yes be yes and no be no. Don’t dilly dally in between the two. Say and do what you mean without question. It has been my experience when questioning something or someone then, the risk is not in your best interest.
We as humans do not use the three gifts bestowed within us to make or act upon decisions. The heart, soul, and mind IS our lifeline.(think deeply about it).
Jesus teachings/ideals to me are instructions on how to put our individual faith into action. Maybe one should review the Sermon on the Mount as a reference. Matthew 5:1-48 for those who do not know exactly where it is.
And even if you choose not to believe in God, each has a right and choice to believe as they wish. The point is that you are born with those three gifts mentioned above and you are in control of how you use them and the outcome.Humans are prone to err, therefore the bible may be full of errors and contradictions. One needs to take into account that in the end, you as an individual did all that you felt was in the best interest of self, family, and others.Each one of us has burdens to bare from the time of each being conceived through death we each dearly depart.
One thing is evident throughout the earths history books such as the bible, quaran,, atheism, wicca, book of latter day saints, and numerous other biblical materials……GOD IS
There is a belief and disbelief…He STILL IS
There are really no “double standards”. Each person just needs to follow directions correctly accordingly to their heart, soul, and mind and show love towards all. These diseases and everything else that go awry is due to the way that each generation has lived, and it seems each generational diseases get worse due to ignorance(not learning from mistakes), lack of love, greed, disobedience to laws, and SIN. Things just go round and round, repeated, regurgitated…etc…Remember that old nursery rhyme…
The wheels on the bus go round and round
Round and round, round and round
The wheels on the bus go round and round
All through the town.
The wipers on the bus go “Swish, swish, swish,
Swish, swish, swish, swish, swish, swish”
The wipers on the bus go “Swish, swish, swish”
All through the town.
The door on the bus goes open and shut
Open and shut, open and shut
The door on the bus goes open and shut
All through the town.
The horn on the bus goes “Beep, beep, beep
Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep”
The horn on the bus goes “Beep, beep, beep”
All through the town.
The gas on the bus goes “Glug, glug, glug
Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug”
The gas on the bus goes “Glug, glug, glug”
All through the town.
The money on the bus goes “Clink, clink, clink,
Clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink”
The money on the bus goes “Clink, clink, clink”
All through the town.
The baby on the bus says, “Wah, wah, wah!
Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah!”
The baby on the bus says, “Wah, wah, wah!”
All through the town.
The people on the bus say, “Shh, shh, shh,
Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh”
The people on the bus say, “Shh, shh, shh”
All through the town.
The mommy on the bus says, “I love you,
I love you, I love you”
The daddy on the bus says, “I love you, too”
All through the town.
Not pointing fingers at anyone or anything here. I’m just posting MY belief and opinion.Remember too, that out of every action comes a reaction. That lets you know that what you do affects more than self.
“I’m just posting MY belief and opinion.”
A timely reminder that everyone is entitled to an opinion but not all opinions are equally. Ta very much for that …
Reminders are great. Wonderful reaction! TC
Loving an enemy never implies that justice is not due them. God cites consequences and longs for all to choose things that bring life, but if they don’t there outcome is decided — God mourns this because of His love for humanity, but justice is still required for wrongdoing. This does not imply hatred. Delivering deserved punishment is not in general hateful, else a judge hates a criminal when they sentence him/her to death or even life in prison. The problem folk have with God is fundamentally that they don’t think anyone is guilty enough of wrongdoing to justify the just result of something “hell-like”. Murder s an act of hate, for it is not an act of justice, but rage, envy, selfishness, etc…Justice is different than hate. The enactment of justice can coexist with love. But, you atheist types often think people are not really guilty in general of much and even if guilty, God must be mean to punish us with such extremes.
At the end of the day, if this God who loves us all and still enacts justice is the actual real God, then it won’t matter whether you think He exists or not, you will not be acquitted. And you not thinking His punishment is just but rather an act of hate does not preclude the possibility that he actually affectionately loves humankind, but cannot leave the guilty unpunished because of His nature (a loner discussion).
LOL, what kind of crime equates an eternity of torture as Justice?
“The problem folk have with God is fundamentally that they don’t think god exists.”
Fixed that for you.
Not believing in god is not a sin. If god were a god, he would not leave it up to letting him be unknown. He is a fabrication, and anyone who knows god is having faith in a non-entity because someone told them to and someone told them, and they are greedy for heaven. Greed is a sin. People who don’t think that death is the end and want eternal life are greedy for more life than everyone else gets, and to put people in their place, to feel better than them, to brag (Vanity is also a sin), they’ve invented an eternity of torment for people who don’t buy this nonsense. They may say that’s not why they are going to heaven and you’re not – of course, pass the blame to god’s will! Who is naming the sinners on earth but people who do not know what god’s will is, pointing fingers and letting god do the clean-up. They’re not judgmental, they’re just.. uh… pointing it out, for their own satisfaction. Altogether, a ton of people who think they are going to heaven are in the same handbasket with me.
Well, I wouldn’t want to live forever if I had to go to hell, and as it turns out, if there’s a god of a certain flavor, a person has no choice but to have eternal life one place or the other. But the good news is, there’s no such thing.
Ive been a christian my entire life. I have felt deep pain and have experienced unspeakable joy as well. Ive done good and have also done bad. At my funeral some, I am certain that all of my friends would testify that the one thing that I am is honest. I hate my honesty…if I was not honest with myself I would have no trouble simply believing in what the Bible say’s is true. But instead I have tormented myself yr after yr with doubt and questions about my faith. It caused me to turn to drinking and lusting for women to an extreme degree . I’m not saying that either drinking or having sex is bad, Im just saying that I was completely consumed by them and then later suffered the consequences in order to avoid the constant demand for questions I knew had no answers. Anyway just a little background. I have plenty of questions that pertain to the Bible but those really aren’t the hard questions…this is the hard question I have to ask : How could God look down on earth and its people and expect them to make a decision that would lead them to either eternal life or eternal separation with only inconclusive evidence? He must know that we dont have enough data to make any assumptions about who He is or what He wants from us. If I were to say to a person “In my left hand is life and eternity with a wonderful maker and in my right hand there’s separation from all that is good and desirable.What will you choose?” I believe that if it were laid out that simply so they could easily tell the difference that the majority of the people on earth would choose the left hand…they would choose life! Not death! Although there would be some crazy people would knowingly choose the right hand and choose to go to hell ,still most people would choose life even if it meant living according to someone’s rules or whatever most of us would choose that cause we would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it meant life. I dont understand why I must feel like I have to make the choice for all eternity based on such a limited amount of data. I hope that he has mercy on my soul…for not knowing what to do now. I hope that I can shake all this fear and finally learn to live outside of the bottle and learn to truly love a woman for so much more than her body. My heart goes out to all you who feel so lost and scared about the future and pray for all of us. One thing I do know is that LOVE is the answer…somehow I know that is the answer to all of are questions…all we have to figure out now is what Love is.
Huh?
OK then… while I didn’t get all of that due to your horrendous interpretation of grammar and punctuation, it’s good that you’re at least confused and not willing to just blindly accept. Read: confusion and doubt is good. It’s a good thing to constant assess your worldview and make sure it’s still relevant and useful to you. I wouldn’t say I feel lost and scared, but I do fear death and can’t imagine not existing… good luck to all of us.
This is directed to anyone of faith to refute my path to enlightenment.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in a nutshell the Christian bible states that in order to get into heaven after one dies one has to accept “Jesus” as their personal savior. Different denominations have their own ways of achieving this task, but that’s another topic in itself.
You have to accept the fact that their are more religions practiced throughout the world other that Christianity.
All one has to do is just take a look around the world.
What does one see. I see 1.5 billion Muslims, 1.5 billion Budist, and 1 billion Hindus. All of which outnumber Christianity to the tune of 4 billion to 2!
Ask yourself what happens to these people when they die. To me there’s only 2 options, heaven or hell. What does the bible say? Not your preacher, mom, dad etc.
As a reflection on what has just been said, I can speak for myself and how I was brought up. I was taught Christianity. I was expected to believe it. I then look throughout the world and acknowlede other religions and can’t help but think that they were taught their religions also. What does that say about the person? That they are so-called sinful? Rebelious? Umm..no. They are doing exactly what everyone else does that professes a faith. They believe what they are told. How then, may I ask now, can God send them to hell for never being taught the “right religion”?
Anyone?
I’d like to see a reply to your question as well…
Good one.
I personally think that this simple acknowledgement
trumps all theist arguments. I don’t think we
need to go any further with more complicated
arguments. If you want to argure further than
this, it’s just an argument for a generic deist god, or of
one we have no idea about; ie (one who created the universe) I think this disproves
either of the specific gods of the three abrahamic
religions.
Oh, sorry to leave out the ~13 million Jewish
population. My bad