Comments on: Does atheism make people superstitious? http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/ Reasonable Thoughts on Religion, Science, Skepticism, and Atheism Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:47:03 -0500 hourly 1 By: Kyazu http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-70310 Kyazu Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:41:20 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-70310 Ah, the things I learn from apologists. So the bible itself is a straw man? Show me the real holy book so I can knock IT down instead, Brad. Even if 90% of atheists believe in functional spirit mediums, 100% of innerantist christians hold a belief that supports the existence of functional spirit mediums...it's clear from the success Saul had resorting to one. And, as it's clear in the question that a medium is a superstition, well..... Again. I understand your rage at Daniel for accusing inerrantist christians of believing that the bible is inerrant. Show me the real divine word of god. Then We'll have a fair argument on ur sides Ah, the things I learn from apologists. So the bible itself is a straw man? Show me the real holy book so I can knock IT down instead, Brad. Even if 90% of atheists believe in functional spirit mediums, 100% of innerantist christians hold a belief that supports the existence of functional spirit mediums…it’s clear from the success Saul had resorting to one. And, as it’s clear in the question that a medium is a superstition, well…..

Again. I understand your rage at Daniel for accusing inerrantist christians of believing that the bible is inerrant. Show me the real divine word of god. Then We’ll have a fair argument on ur sides

]]> By: MCflames http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-60298 MCflames Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:59:39 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-60298 Um hey guys, I just wanted to say Im a proud ATHIEST!!!! Vatican Priest ~The Universe fundamentally needs no diety for the "design", its so beautifully made it designs itself, Energy clumping together to form matter, matter clumping together to form molecules, Molecules make the world around us, Whats beautiful is not a "god" that designed anything but that through a force, energy, a set of laws of the physical world, the Universe creates itself and everything in It. This is not to say there is no room for spirituality, If there is a god science will prove his existence to a certain probability based on the laws of the Universe. Um hey guys, I just wanted to say Im a proud ATHIEST!!!!

Vatican Priest ~The Universe fundamentally needs no diety for the “design”, its so beautifully made it designs itself, Energy clumping together to form matter, matter clumping together to form molecules, Molecules make the world around us, Whats beautiful is not a “god” that designed anything but that through a force, energy, a set of laws of the physical world, the Universe creates itself and everything in It. This is not to say there is no room for spirituality, If there is a god science will prove his existence to a certain probability based on the laws of the Universe.

]]> By: zachw http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-56267 zachw Sat, 01 Aug 2009 05:55:56 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-56267 Superstition: a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge. There, now that we're clear on that, this is why believing in the bible's teachings is a form of superstition: 1: there is no proof of the Bible's teachings. The earliest accounts on Jesus' life were written 60 years after his death, and the god in the Bible seems to have grown rather lackluster of late (ex:an image of Jesus burned onto toast is not a miracle) (in fact, many have been disputed by modern science, such as the age of the earth.) 2: The bible disputes itself. It says god is love, yet he orders the genocide of all first born sons of Egypt, several entire nations simply to gain land around the middle east, and he sent his own son to die.....at the hands of the people this perfect god created.... 3:You deny thousands of religions, yet yours is special because it's book was written by/directly from god...unlike all of the others. You have no proof of the bible's beliefs, and, in fact, ignore many of the teachings it tells you to follow (ever read Leviticus? And you still aren't stoning back talking children, atheists (might be from another one), people who wear multi-fabric clothing, people who shave/cut facial hair, or gays? Do you eat shellfish? have you given all of your possessions away? if not, you wont go to heaven :( Superstition: a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge.

There, now that we’re clear on that, this is why believing in the bible’s teachings is a form of superstition:
1: there is no proof of the Bible’s teachings. The earliest accounts on Jesus’ life were written 60 years after his death, and the god in the Bible seems to have grown rather lackluster of late (ex:an image of Jesus burned onto toast is not a miracle) (in fact, many have been disputed by modern science, such as the age of the earth.)
2: The bible disputes itself. It says god is love, yet he orders the genocide of all first born sons of Egypt, several entire nations simply to gain land around the middle east, and he sent his own son to die…..at the hands of the people this perfect god created….
3:You deny thousands of religions, yet yours is special because it’s book was written by/directly from god…unlike all of the others.

You have no proof of the bible’s beliefs, and, in fact, ignore many of the teachings it tells you to follow (ever read Leviticus? And you still aren’t stoning back talking children, atheists (might be from another one), people who wear multi-fabric clothing, people who shave/cut facial hair, or gays? Do you eat shellfish? have you given all of your possessions away? if not, you wont go to heaven :(

]]> By: DCtouristsANDlocals http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-49619 DCtouristsANDlocals Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:39:38 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-49619 If you wish to sound intelligent in your arguments, I recommend using proper grammar and spell check. If you wish to sound intelligent in your arguments, I recommend using proper grammar and spell check.

]]> By: Bob http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-43501 Bob Sat, 30 May 2009 06:56:20 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-43501 Red Dave, most atheists are also agnostic. Most of us come to the conclusion that we can not prove or disprove a god, but have also come to the conclusion through probably reasoning that the answer to the question is most likely that there isn't one. In our opinion that is, with the full understanding that we do not know if our answer to the question is right or not, it's just what we believe. I myself am content with the fact that I do not know and can not know, but I still believe that it is most probably that there is not a god. On to my comment on the article. I have come to the opinion that many people of religion, namely christians, as that is who i interact with the most, do not really believe in most of what they say they do. When you ask the questions like "do you believe in ghosts?" the intial response is usually their true belief. They say they do not believe in ghosts. Then you cite a part of the bible that says they should, and they do not want to face the fact that it is just another part of their religion they do not believe in, because they are afraid to admit to themselves that they may not believe in their own religion all together. So they change their mind and try to convince themselves that maybe they DO believe in ghosts. Does this make any sense? Red Dave, most atheists are also agnostic. Most of us come to the conclusion that we can not prove or disprove a god, but have also come to the conclusion through probably reasoning that the answer to the question is most likely that there isn’t one. In our opinion that is, with the full understanding that we do not know if our answer to the question is right or not, it’s just what we believe. I myself am content with the fact that I do not know and can not know, but I still believe that it is most probably that there is not a god.

On to my comment on the article.

I have come to the opinion that many people of religion, namely christians, as that is who i interact with the most, do not really believe in most of what they say they do. When you ask the questions like “do you believe in ghosts?” the intial response is usually their true belief. They say they do not believe in ghosts. Then you cite a part of the bible that says they should, and they do not want to face the fact that it is just another part of their religion they do not believe in, because they are afraid to admit to themselves that they may not believe in their own religion all together. So they change their mind and try to convince themselves that maybe they DO believe in ghosts.

Does this make any sense?

]]> By: Janet Greene http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-43181 Janet Greene Fri, 29 May 2009 09:41:27 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-43181 Scientists are converting to christianity? En mass? Really. I saw some percentages on the religious beliefs of scientists in biology, quantum physics, etc. The average figure was 95% were not religious in any way. This is much higher than the general population, many of whom have never really searched for truth or questioned what they have been taught. Generally speaking, the more educated you are, the less likely you will be a believer. There are exceptions, of course. This is one reason the republicans, in the last election, were trying to elicit fear about the "elites". This is because they know that people who are educated are less likely to be controlled by fear, and this is when public figures can do anything - just like god, they are waging war, suspending rights, etc., to save us from damnation (terrorists, hell, etc.) It takes an educated population to question these beliefs, and to stand strong for reason. Scientists are converting to christianity? En mass? Really. I saw some percentages on the religious beliefs of scientists in biology, quantum physics, etc. The average figure was 95% were not religious in any way. This is much higher than the general population, many of whom have never really searched for truth or questioned what they have been taught. Generally speaking, the more educated you are, the less likely you will be a believer. There are exceptions, of course. This is one reason the republicans, in the last election, were trying to elicit fear about the “elites”. This is because they know that people who are educated are less likely to be controlled by fear, and this is when public figures can do anything – just like god, they are waging war, suspending rights, etc., to save us from damnation (terrorists, hell, etc.) It takes an educated population to question these beliefs, and to stand strong for reason.

]]> By: Red Dave http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-33008 Red Dave Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:30:59 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-33008 I dont claim to be an "athiest", I am a proud agnostic. I myself can niether prove nor dis-prove God. However I have much more in common with athiests than people of religious faith because I detest organized religion. I feel it brainwashes people and try actively to get them to believe rather than to think. It is also responsible for more misery on this earth than almost anything else. @Brad Do you know why you quoted Romans at us? Do you think it is going to frighten me? Make me think again? Is it a warning of some sort? Please try and understand this. I will not speak for others, but I believe many here feel the same way. You cannot frighten me with scripture. It just wont work anymore than me saying watch out, Frankenstiens behind you! If you believe in a loving God, who burns and tortures his disobediant children for all eternity, then you believe in a monstorous God. If any person did that, cooked thier disobediant child, you would be right on boat saying that they were sick or evil. Yet the christian God does that to everyone who does not believe as the "CHURCH" says. From one church to another they feel the same way. These days they talk less about that in public, as it is Politically incorrect. Yet each church teaches some form of it. Each demonination of chistianity thinks they are going to heaven, and the rest of the world can burn, and they are happy about that. They feel they are somehow the chosen ones, but even the church next door thinks your liable to burn. The entire Muslim world thinks all the Jews will roast, and all the christians, and the Christians feel the same way. Many poeple who feel as I do did not get here overnight, we are not decieved of the devil, we are not pawns of Satan. Rather the inverse is true. We have chosen NOT to be pawns of religion, we have chosen to THINK before believing, we have chosen a path of rational thought not emotional fear. As for myself, I am content in NOT understanding everything. I don't have that impossible need. I dont have an illusion that the great "I" is somehow superior to you or anyone. I am simply content to grasp that my feeble human intellect is insufficient to hold all the data in the universe. I'll leave those thoughts to some other ego maniacal individual to waste thier life on, while I enjoiy mine, sipping my ciffee and smelling the roses. So please, spare me the boogyman's gonna get you arguments, they just waste time and space. I dont claim to be an “athiest”, I am a proud agnostic. I myself can niether prove nor dis-prove God. However I have much more in common with athiests than people of religious faith because I detest organized religion. I feel it brainwashes people and try actively to get them to believe rather than to think. It is also responsible for more misery on this earth than almost anything else.

@Brad Do you know why you quoted Romans at us? Do you think it is going to frighten me? Make me think again? Is it a warning of some sort?

Please try and understand this. I will not speak for others, but I believe many here feel the same way. You cannot frighten me with scripture. It just wont work anymore than me saying watch out, Frankenstiens behind you!

If you believe in a loving God, who burns and tortures his disobediant children for all eternity, then you believe in a monstorous God. If any person did that, cooked thier disobediant child, you would be right on boat saying that they were sick or evil. Yet the christian God does that to everyone who does not believe as the “CHURCH” says.

From one church to another they feel the same way. These days they talk less about that in public, as it is Politically incorrect. Yet each church teaches some form of it. Each demonination of chistianity thinks they are going to heaven, and the rest of the world can burn, and they are happy about that. They feel they are somehow the chosen ones, but even the church next door thinks your liable to burn. The entire Muslim world thinks all the Jews will roast, and all the christians, and the Christians feel the same way.

Many poeple who feel as I do did not get here overnight, we are not decieved of the devil, we are not pawns of Satan. Rather the inverse is true. We have chosen NOT to be pawns of religion, we have chosen to THINK before believing, we have chosen a path of rational thought not emotional fear.

As for myself, I am content in NOT understanding everything. I don’t have that impossible need. I dont have an illusion that the great “I” is somehow superior to you or anyone. I am simply content to grasp that my feeble human intellect is insufficient to hold all the data in the universe. I’ll leave those thoughts to some other ego maniacal individual to waste thier life on, while I enjoiy mine, sipping my ciffee and smelling the roses.

So please, spare me the boogyman’s gonna get you arguments, they just waste time and space.

]]> By: Red Dave http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-32993 Red Dave Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:51:33 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-32993 roflmao roflmao

]]> By: AnonymousAtheist18 http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-32527 AnonymousAtheist18 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:55:24 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-32527 Maybe you should read a little bit more about the Theory of Evolution and the law of the conservation of mass-energy! See below, this from David Mills' "Atheist Universe": "If mass-energy cannot be created or destroyed, and if the universe is entirely composed of mass-energy, then the law of the conservation of mass-energy may be extrapolated to this startling conclusion: the universe, in one form or another, in one density or another, always existed. There was never a time when the mass-energy comprising our universe did not exist, if only in the form of an empty oscillating vacuum or an infinitely dense theoretical point called a singularity, consisting of no volume whatsoever." No scientist has ever claimed that the universe appeared ex nihilo... only Creationists do that. Maybe you should read a little bit more about the Theory of Evolution and the law of the conservation of mass-energy! See below, this from David Mills’ “Atheist Universe”:

“If mass-energy cannot be created or destroyed, and if the universe
is entirely composed of mass-energy, then the law of the
conservation of mass-energy may be extrapolated to this startling
conclusion: the universe, in one form or another, in one
density or another, always existed. There was never a time when
the mass-energy comprising our universe did not exist, if only in
the form of an empty oscillating vacuum or an infinitely dense
theoretical point called a singularity, consisting of no volume
whatsoever.”

No scientist has ever claimed that the universe appeared ex nihilo… only Creationists do that.

]]> By: AnonymousAtheist18 http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-32526 AnonymousAtheist18 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:40:13 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-32526 Awesome, only "men[mankind]" are stupid enough to believe in the paranormal! ...oh wait, women believe in it too, but their beliefs are substandard. They don't count! Sexist. Awesome, only “men[mankind]” are stupid enough to believe in the paranormal!
…oh wait, women believe in it too, but their beliefs are substandard. They don’t count!
Sexist.

]]> By: Allie http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-3868 Allie Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:38:50 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-3868 who the fuck cares i mean, i agree 100% with daniel, but attacking each others belief systems or lack of belief systems is silly, and will not get anyone anywhere. christians: do not try to prove that god exists. you never will. and stop trying to convert other people. let them make their own choices Atheists: stop trying to prove that god doesn't exist. you never will. proof is relative to the extreme limitations of human perception. stop attacking christianity. everyone just live and let live. or at least fight in person; fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded. who the fuck cares
i mean, i agree 100% with daniel, but attacking each others belief systems or lack of belief systems is silly, and will not get anyone anywhere.
christians: do not try to prove that god exists. you never will. and stop trying to convert other people. let them make their own choices
Atheists: stop trying to prove that god doesn’t exist. you never will. proof is relative to the extreme limitations of human perception. stop attacking christianity.

everyone just live and let live. or at least fight in person; fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics: even if you win, you’re still retarded.

]]> By: SudokuArena.com http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-3867 SudokuArena.com Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:20:50 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-3867 Dear Daniel, maybe you don't know, but science has discovered many proofs that God exists. Famous atheists and evolution scientists are prooving just that, Francis Collins (Genome project) or Anthony Flew (famous 20.ct atheist), just to name few of them, they turned to God. How to explain then when atheism and science is at its peek, scientists and evolutionists are coverting to God? They obviously had any possible argument that God don't exists. So what happened to them? What they discovered about God (and life, nature and the world)? Dear Daniel,

maybe you don’t know, but science has discovered many proofs that God exists. Famous atheists and evolution scientists are prooving just that, Francis Collins (Genome project) or Anthony Flew (famous 20.ct atheist), just to name few of them, they turned to God.

How to explain then when atheism and science is at its peek, scientists and evolutionists are coverting to God?
They obviously had any possible argument that God don’t exists.
So what happened to them?
What they discovered about God (and life, nature and the world)?

]]> By: nswipe92 http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-3866 nswipe92 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:46:59 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-3866 You may call us Christians whatever you want, do you believe in evolution? if so really think about it. the origin of life as evolution tells it. that first there was absolutely nothing at all, nothing shall i repeat it, nothing then out of no where (since there was nothing) something appeared and just exploded. this theory if it is true says that the first law of thermodynamics is false, lets see a theory against a law of science. I see that it takes more faith to believe in the big bang happening than it does to believe in Christianity honestly i dont have enough faith to be an atheist there are too many flaws and not enough proof. you said "What if I claimed that Christians — who believe in miracles, prayer, faith healing, demons, and inspired books — were less superstitious than atheists" well if it takes more faith to believe in evolution then your a huge hypocrite. In the past 1 or 2 decades more and more secular scientists that use to believe in evolution discard or come out and admit they hate towards God as their only reason to believe evolution. as professor Urey a winner of the Nobel Prize for Chemistry said " All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, the more we feel it is too complex to have evolved anywhere... And yet we all believe as AN ARTICLE OF FAITH that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great that it is hard for us to imagine that it did"so there you have it one of your own admitting it takes faith to believe in evolution. You may call us Christians whatever you want, do you believe in evolution? if so really think about it. the origin of life as evolution tells it. that first there was absolutely nothing at all, nothing shall i repeat it, nothing then out of no where (since there was nothing) something appeared and just exploded. this theory if it is true says that the first law of thermodynamics is false, lets see a theory against a law of science. I see that it takes more faith to believe in the big bang happening than it does to believe in Christianity honestly i dont have enough faith to be an atheist there are too many flaws and not enough proof. you said “What if I claimed that Christians — who believe in miracles, prayer, faith healing, demons, and inspired books — were less superstitious than atheists” well if it takes more faith to believe in evolution then your a huge hypocrite. In the past 1 or 2 decades more and more secular scientists that use to believe in evolution discard or come out and admit they hate towards God as their only reason to believe evolution. as professor Urey a winner of the Nobel Prize for Chemistry said ” All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, the more we feel it is too complex to have evolved anywhere… And yet we all believe as AN ARTICLE OF FAITH that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great that it is hard for us to imagine that it did”so there you have it one of your own admitting it takes faith to believe in evolution.

]]> By: mark http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-3865 mark Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:06:11 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-3865 talk about botching a conclusion. The reason this survey produced these results is that Pastors speak out against divination and other similar "pagan" practices. However, if they looked a little further, the Bible actually encourages their efficacy, but simply warns them it is against "God's Will." In Judaism, it's considered an un-ideal form of faith, though it is considered very real. Remember when God cursed Moses for making the water come from the rock? That is just one example of this. It's funny how pop-christianity gets this wrong and simply attacks these practices as ineffective. And then of course, this is a very poorly conducted study, as it didn't actually include a question of one's self-described religious preference, but simply divided non-churchgoers into a broad and meaningless 'athiest' category. talk about botching a conclusion. The reason this survey produced these results is that Pastors speak out against divination and other similar “pagan” practices. However, if they looked a little further, the Bible actually encourages their efficacy, but simply warns them it is against “God’s Will.” In Judaism, it’s considered an un-ideal form of faith, though it is considered very real. Remember when God cursed Moses for making the water come from the rock? That is just one example of this. It’s funny how pop-christianity gets this wrong and simply attacks these practices as ineffective.

And then of course, this is a very poorly conducted study, as it didn’t actually include a question of one’s self-described religious preference, but simply divided non-churchgoers into a broad and meaningless ‘athiest’ category.

]]> By: jonboy http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/09/24/does-atheism-make-people-superstitious/#comment-3864 jonboy Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:19:04 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.wordpress.com/?p=733#comment-3864 I just mean that the commonly understood meanings of superstition and religion are different from one another, which is why the article is not in itself contradictory. If your argument is that religion and superstition is the same thing (which is fine as far as it goes) then you can make the assertion that the article or study is/are inconsistent. However, since the common understanding of superstition *is* different from religion, it is not necessarily the case that the article and study are self-contradictory (although since an argument could be made that superstition and religion are roughly synonymous, there is certainly room to contest the assertions of the article.) I just mean that the commonly understood meanings of superstition and religion are different from one another, which is why the article is not in itself contradictory. If your argument is that religion and superstition is the same thing (which is fine as far as it goes) then you can make the assertion that the article or study is/are inconsistent. However, since the common understanding of superstition *is* different from religion, it is not necessarily the case that the article and study are self-contradictory (although since an argument could be made that superstition and religion are roughly synonymous, there is certainly room to contest the assertions of the article.)

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