Comments on: If you only saw demons levitating, you’d believe!

By: Francis

Francis — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:39:51 +0000

Aor,
Why, that actually makes sense. However, that is quite obviously the most close minded thing i have ever heard from you. I’m shocked. It’s quite ridiculous to say that if someone is ignorant, then they are correct and you are deluded. Have you by any chance ever had the opportunity to argue with a three year old? It’s the most exasperating arguement i have ever heard. “Yes, i know the little boy hit you, but it’s not okay to hit him back.” “Yes it is!” “No, it’s not.” “Yes it is!” and on and on and on. Was it right ot hit him back? Lets move that up a step. A man kills your wife (or husband), is it right to kill his spouse?

By: Aor

Aor — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:56:15 +0000

If it doesn’t makes sense, then it doesn’t make sense. Anyone who tries to convince you that something that doesn’t make sense makes sense, isn’t making sense. If you know what I mean.

By: Francis

Francis — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:54:43 +0000

Aor,
Hmmm… well, from what i know, what i said earlier still applies. It seems as if the Bible says in the little script on the sides (it explains the readings), that part of these stories of Jesus’ ressurection is in some way a prophecy (if thats the right word) of the future. Or, to put it another way, it hasn’t exactly happened yet. It doesn’t really make sense to me, but that’s what the part that WASN’T written a couple thousand years ago says, so…
I agree with Daniel, though. You ask very good questions.

By: murrowcronkite

murrowcronkite — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:58:20 +0000

It is well known that if you interview witnesses of an event they will give difering accounts of it.

By: Daniel Florien

Daniel Florien — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:58:02 +0000

@Aor: Great questions!

By: Aor

Aor — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:29:18 +0000

Quillink, are you really saying that the entire population of Jerusalem saw their culture’s greatest philosophers and teachers reawaken from the dead and walk the streets preaching for three days and not write it down? Nobody? There was another jewish rebellion a generation or so later, and plenty got written down about that. Why not mention the zombies? This would be a massive life changing experience for the entire population of Jerusalem. I think something would have been written. If the guards and priests told nobody, how did someone write it down a hundred years later? Ask yourself.. does the story make sense, does it have internal consistency?

You really want people to believe that the guards who saw an angel appear directly in front of them, proving that the so-called messiah their people had killed was actually the messiah, and just took bribes to go against the will of a god that had just proved his existence to them directly? Have you thought that through, at all? That is claiming that these two guards knowingly chose to go against the will of a god. Consider that. How realistic is it? Would people behave that way, or does it sound more like a piece of fiction created many years later to defend a belief system?

Have you ever wondered why the other gospels tell the story differently? Which one is true? Can they all be true when they say different things? Was there a sermon on the mount, or a sermon on the plain? Why do the ‘holy books’ not describe both, if both occurred? Why do different authors give different geneologies for Jesus?

Think about these things, read your bible, read the works of those who have analyzed the bible.

If you are really interested, I recommend reading the different accounts of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection. Some is in Acts and Corinthians, I think. Take notes of where the tales agree and where they disagree, and when you have that done put together a version of the tale that includes only the elements that all four books contain, in chronological order. Doing this will convince you that the tales are unreliable. Ohers have done so and you would have their works to compare it to.

http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/08/taking-the-resurrection-challenge/

By: Francis

Francis — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:15:38 +0000

Yeah, me too. That’s one of the reasons i come here so much. It helps me to understand my faith better.

By: Quillink

Quillink — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 01:11:14 +0000

@ Francis; Meh, I might stick around. ;)

And I completely agree. Reading through this argument has revealed to me just how little I understand the Bible, and you guys have inspired me to more firmly root my faith.

Thank you!

By: Francis

Francis — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:52:01 +0000

Quillink,
Why, thank you. Do i have an ally?

Daniel,
Yes, i know humans are easily fooled. I was just saying it’s something that i find intriguing, and thought you might as well. I got my info from a video in class one day, and from a priest’s homily. Again, i’ll look into it. And it seems you’ve rubbed of on me. I actually find myself being more skeptical of everything every day.

By: Quillink

Quillink — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:05:02 +0000

Just my two cents, but on the topic of the guards witnessing the angel rolling Jesus’ tomb stone away, am I the only one who read this?

“2.There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3.His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4T.he guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. ”

You do mean Matthew 28, don’t you??
Also, a bit later on in the same chapter:

“11While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ 14If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” 15So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.”

Surely that can account for why it wasn’t recorded; since the only soles the guards told were the priests (who were the ones who were responsible for Jesus’ murder, btw).

” 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

These people weren’t half rotted, muddy zombies – they would have arisen fully healed, with all their flesh accounted for. They could have walked through Jerusalem like anyone else, and not been noticed. “Appeared unto many” could be speaking of them preaching about God. Certainly if you’d died and been awoken once more this would be the first thing you’d want to do!

Surely day to day people wandering the streets, preaching, would not demand historical documentation – it was hardly out of the ordinary unless you knew the people doing so had already died.

I’ll just leave you with this verse, 1 Corinthians 2:14;
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.”

By: Daniel Florien

Daniel Florien — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:19:36 +0000

@Francis: People are easily fooled. You have to check out Derren Brown’s “Trick of the Mind” TV series. People have been looking for scientific evidence for that stuff for hundreds of years, and nothing has ever been found — and it’s not for want of searching or trying!

You are asking us to believe something extraordinary, with no evidence, much less any extraordinary evidence. We all know things like this don’t happen in our own lives — why are we so quick to believe they happen in others?

Instead of believing everything to hear, don’t you think it would be good to be a bit skeptical, especially knowing that humans are incredibly easy to fool and manipulate?

By: Francis

Francis — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:02:45 +0000

Really? My knowledge is pretty limited, and i need to research it more, but i’m pretty sure there’s been lots of unexplainable scientific evidence. Like how there’s actually no paint on the tilma. The image just seems to float there. And how the stars on Mary’s cloak are the constallations on that very day. There people in her eyes! When Juan Diego let the roses fall, the pictures of the people seem to have been caught in her eyes. Also, did you hear about the explosion?

By: Daniel Florien

Daniel Florien — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:28:33 +0000

@Francis: All anecdote, no evidence.

By: Francis

Francis — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:58:26 +0000

Another thing to all. Look up Our Lady of Guadalupe. It’s really very fascinating. The tilma has several mysteries surrounding it. Just a thought.

By: Francis

Francis — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:13:33 +0000

I just remembered: My religion teacher said “How do we know where these miracles come from?” That requires faith, too. So really, i guess, miracles require faith just as much as anything else in life does. They can help, or you can brush them off, andd they’ll probably harm your faith.

p.s. I turned 14 around the 23rd of November. That’s why i have a religion teacher. Christian school. Just thought i’d clarify that, so you didn’t think i had some freaky memory or something.