There are alot of atheist/agnostic/skeptical blogs out there. And being one of them, I tend to see and read a lot of others. Here are some that have caught my attention over my internet travels.
The Top 5
The Best of the Rest
(in alphabetical order)
- Atheist Eve
- Atheist Movies
- Atheist Revolution
- Bad Astronomy
- Bad Science
- By the Book Comics
- Daylight Atheism
- Derren Brown’s Blog
- Dwindling in Unbelief
- Edward Current
- Evangelical Realism
- Greta Christina’s Blog
- Julia Sweeney
- Mid-West Humanists
- Negligible Knowledge Base
- Religion Comics
- Richard Dawkins
- SkepChick
- Skeptic Blog
- Skeptico
- Slacktivist
- Panda’s Thumb
- Primordial Blog
- Why Won’t God Heal Amputees Blog
- William Lobdell
Did I miss your favorite? If so, add it in the comments!
Update: I realize not all these bloggers are atheists or agnostics. I also included blogs I consider “skeptical.” The original title was a bit misleading in that regard.
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Above Bloggers: Feel free to use this graphic on your blog if you want:
Here’s the code to display it on your sidebar:
<a href="http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/02/05/the-top-30-atheistagnostic-blogs/"><img src="http://unreasonablefaith.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/blog-award.gif" alt="Named one of the top Atheist / Agnostic Blogs by Unreasonable Faith" width="170" height="50" /></a>











181 Comments
IMHO, Atheist Revolution should be in the top 5. Vjack has a lot of really good stuff on there.
Yeah, it was hard to decide on the top 5. But I put the ones I find most interesting there.
Hey, you left out Unreasonable Faith! Oh wait…
But seriously, there’s also Enemy Combatant Trailmix Society (blog by Tiana, She Of The Casey Luskin Incident). I also enjoy The Urban Farmhouse, and Letters From Abroad (an ex-mo blog). Stupid Evil Bastard is also quite good. There are so many…
Thank you for this list Daniel. Daniel I am waiting for someone ( a believer0 to come out of the closest and publicly state on this blog, that an argument from one of posters or you (Daniel) made them think and reconsider how silly and retarded thier beliefs are.
I am waiting for a deconversion.
I second the recommendation for Atheist Revolution. It really is a top quality blog.
I also really like to read:
The Invisible Pink Unicorn
http://www.theipu.com/
Jesus and Mo
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
One Minion’s Opinion
http://1minionsopinion.wordpress.com/
Thanks for the list, Daniel! I will be sure to check out some of those which I had not previously encountered.
I like this one:
http://exfundamentalist.blogspot.com/
…made them think and reconsider how silly and retarded their beliefs are.
I can’t imagine that this would help the process along.
Julia Sweeny! The androgynous Pat?
Yes, thanks for the list! Sometimes I get interested in other atheist blogs, but then I realize I don’t have time to check them all, so I stop myself from adding them to my reader because mostly I would just prefer to read UF when I have the time!
I will add these though:
http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/
(The “Idea” girl behind the bus ads)
http://atheistblogger.com/
http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/
http://topicagnostic.com/
http://de-conversion.com/
…And one of my faves:
http://stuffgodhates.com/
Thanks for the list. Several here I haven’t seen.
A second vote for “Atheist Revolution”. One of my top 5.
Another good one not on the list:
http://www.anatheist.net/
Great list, a lot here I haven’t read yet. Thanks for posting this! I’d second Enemy Combatant, but that’s just because it’s mine.
“…made them think and reconsider how silly and retarded their beliefs are. ”
elemenope:I can’t imagine that this would help the process along.
mark: Its a lot more civilized and kinder than believing and expressing the idea that billions of humans and specifically children are going to burn in hell for eternity for not believing in Jesus when they were never ever exposed to the concept of a Jesus in the first place.
If the holy rollers cant stand the heat well then they should stop making exclusive claims they cant even provide a decent argument for. Until them I dont give a f#ck about thier feelings in the larger scheme of things.
Markbey,
Billions of children are not going to hell, they are going to heaven, and thats not what Jesus says,its Allah the Almighty says.Don’t you worry.Childrens are like newborns, they have no sins.
You should get all your doubts from the right source.I can help you on that.
Oh…you’re over here now, forcing your fairy tales upon people.
I suppose pimping my own blog would be bad form? No, really, I’m not in that league, but I thought vjack should’ve been in the top 5.
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com
examples:
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/10/i-proudly-am-atheist.html
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-thought-i-saw-atheist.html
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-chistmas.html
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2009/01/worms-go-in.html
If the holy rollers cant stand the heat well then they should stop making exclusive claims they cant even provide a decent argument for. Until them I dont give a f#ck about thier feelings in the larger scheme of things.
That’s fine and all, if that’s how you feel, but I’m just pointing out that expressing that feeling in that way works at cross-purposes with your stated desire to see a “de-conversion”. After all, calling people names makes them less likely, not more, to take what you have to say seriously and consider the possible superiority of your position.
In my experience it just leads to retrenchment.
Personal Failure, I like your quote:
“I’m an atheist and I have cookies! Delicious cookies”
UK centric but not exclusively:
http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk
Expect to see the counter to the atheist buses appearing soon.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/05/atheist-bus-christian-response
What makes one atheist blog better than another?
Why does it catch your attention?
“After all, calling people names makes them less likely, not more, to take what you have to say seriously and consider the possible superiority of your position.
In my experience it just leads to retrenchment.”
mark: This is true but thier are times when I dont care because the holy rollers get to make any justification for thier beliefs no matter how redundant or ridicilous the reasons. Then when you ask then simple questions such as
why would a just and loving god give instructions on how to sell ones daughter into slavery, the holy rollers act as if they cant read and give an opinion.
bible quote: “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)”
Or when I asked a Catholic on this board if they believed in exorcisms instead of answering my question I was offered reading material about Catholism it took several comments before the dude would answer a simple question.
When debating christians I find this behavior all the time for instance when you whty is the bible so sexist the holy rollers ignore these questions which I consider dishones.
However you are right you catch more flies with honey the vinegar.
Its not a blog but Pat Condell is a LEGEND for reason
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=patcondell&view=videos
Slacktivist? Fred’s a Christian.
Thanks for the list. Greta Christina is my favorite atheist blogger. I’ll have to check out some of the others.
There’s loads of them (us, that is) over at Planet Atheism and on Mojoey’s atheist blogroll.
Offtopic, but…
However you are right you catch more flies with honey the vinegar.
http://xkcd.com/357/
Flies are in fact attracted to putrefaction. Honey might attract more bees and wasps, but vinegar wins for flies.
Vorjack has a blog of his own?
Well blow me down.
*adds to bookmarks**
Ha! You got linked to from Pharyngula dude :-) Deservedly so, I think. There’s a lot of insightful commentary going on here. Of course there’re also some ignorant commenters…
Oh, wait, is vjack vorjack? Or is that just coincidence?
Also, to toss one anecdote into the mix:
Mockery of my beliefs led to me entrenching, just as nope points out. However, my version of entrenchment led to me doing ever more study to defend my beliefs. That study led directly to my de-conversion.
You never really know what will work.
vorjack here isn’t vjack. It’s a coincidence. :)
I realize Slacktivist isn’t an atheist, but I was thinking of him in the “skeptical” category — plus his blog is well-liked by many atheists.
Mockery of my beliefs led to me entrenching, just as nope points out. However, my version of entrenchment led to me doing ever more study to defend my beliefs. That study led directly to my de-conversion.
You never really know what will work.
Fair point. I think though that most people retrench emotionally rather than take the (IMO superior) intellectual road of searching for better justifications that you did.
Also, I’m being a little selfish here. I don’t like reading/hearing insults regarding people’s beliefs because those insults make *me* cringe. There’s something about it that makes me deeply uncomfortable, and want to defend whoever is the target almost out of reflex. It’s not logical, but there it is.
@ markbey
“When debating christians I find this behavior all the time for instance when you whty is the bible so sexist the holy rollers ignore these questions which I consider dishones.”
Perhaps it’s in part who you ask? As often as you can find a believer who has no idea why they believe what they believe and can’t answer a decent question, a believer will run into an atheist who can’t either.
My point is, there are a lot of very loud people on either side who are just loud. Doesn’t mean they have all the answers or care to even look or try to find them they just like to yell.
Wow, I’ve got some more reading to do. I would also suggest these:
(((Billy))) The Atheist
http://iambilly.wordpress.com/
Philly Chief’s blog
http://youmademesayit.blogspot.com/
Spanish Inquisitor
http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/
God is for suckers!
http://gods4suckers.net/
The Freethinker magazine
http://www.freethinker.co.uk/
and for when you’re feeling really angry try out
http://www.evolvedrational.com/
ERV!!!
She does good work.
@ Philip
True, there are a lot of people who just like to yell. Period.
However, that shouldn’t be a serious obstacle to determined, persistant pursuit of answers.
Ignorant atheists or theists does not an argument make.
“As often as you can find a believer who has no idea why they believe what they believe and can’t answer a decent question, a believer will run into an atheist who can’t either.”
Ah, look, you just made something up.
I defy you to present any evidence that this equality you assert is actually the case.
I’ll assert that there are many many many more religious folks with no idea what their religion is about than there are atheists who can’t explain why they don’t believe in god/s.
And I’ve been on both sides of that divide. If they were actually equally uninformed, I’d still be a Christian.
@ Phillip
” Perhaps it’s in part who you ask? As often as you can find a believer who has no idea why they believe what they believe and can’t answer a decent question, a believer will run into an atheist who can’t either.”
mark: But thier is a difference between an atheist who says I have seen no evidence of god and therefore I dont believe and a believer who says not only is thier a god but out of all of the thousands my concept of god is the only one that is correct.
When you ask them what proof they have or if they can give an argument for why they believe in god. The only case they can make is an emotional case. Somewhere in thier argument they end up stating how moral and just thier god is.
When you ask them a specific question such as if god is moral and just then exactly why would god give instructions on how to sell ones daughter into slavery they pretend like they cannot read.
Lastly believers are the ones making extrodinary claims and an extrodinary claim at least should have a decent argument if not extrodinary proof to go along with those claims.
@ nope
Also, I’m being a little selfish here. I don’t like reading/hearing insults regarding people’s beliefs because those insults make *me* cringe. There’s something about it that makes me deeply uncomfortable, and want to defend whoever is the target almost out of reflex. It’s not logical, but there it is.”
mark: I feel where your comming from but why is it athiest must be polite to christians and not mock them but christians can mock any belief they dont believe in including other christian denominations they dont follow.
For instance I have heard some christians refer to Jehova witness, Seventh day adventist and Catholics as belonging to cults. I would love to know exactly what makes those denomintions cults any more than any other christian denomination.
Christians disrespect and mock people from different denominations and religions all of the time.
“I’ll assert that there are many many many more religious folks with no idea what their religion is about than there are atheists who can’t explain why they don’t believe in god/s.”
mark: Ditto. Most christians I know havent event read 1/4 of the bible and yet only thier fantastic beliefs could possible be true.
christians should get the exact same treatment they give to other non christian believers.
Oh, here’s another outstanding atheist-oriented blog that I really like which I accidentally forgot to mention earlier:
Atheism: Proving the Negative
http://www.atheismblog.blogspot.com/
http://thegoodatheist.net/
that’s my friend Jake’s blog.
mine is kind of atheisty also. but more just random drunken rants and music
I’d like to give a shout to the atheist blog
http://www.aboyandhiscomputer.com/
Famous for the Church Sign Generator
enjoy
14. Mid-West Humanists
That one threw me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the term “Mid-West applied to any country but the U.S.
Pushing my own barrow – but for something done under (from New Zealand) have a look at Open Parachute.
Someday I’ll make the list!
I’m hurt. Well, maybe you haven’t visited yet. I choose to be hurt, though. More fun that way. :)
http://blocraison.blogspot.com
Thanks Ken, always interesting to see what atheists in the rest of the world have to say.
I’ve always wanted to travel to New Zealand. Back when I was still religious, people in my religion would brag that you could go anywhere in the world and be assured of a place to stay, since you could call on the hospitality of any of the brethren.
We need an atheist version of that. :)
I feel where your comming from but why is it athiest must be polite to christians and not mock them but christians can mock any belief they dont believe in including other christian denominations they dont follow.
In my experience, conscientious Christians are as unlikely to be nasty in conversation as conscientious Atheists. The reason, I think, that there is a general perception among Atheists that Christians are nastier and more dismissive in conversations than Atheists is two-fold:
1. There are more Christians than Atheists. As a matter of probability, then, any jerk that you meet is more likely to be a Christian than an Atheist, all other things being equal. Also, as a subsidiary consequence, being in the majority has the added benefit of having substantial social cover for being a jerk or being dismissive; it’s easier to get away with.
2. Since you are an Atheist, it is more likely that you will be engaging in argument with a Christian than with another Atheist, and so there is something of selection bias in play.
Neither one has an excuse to behave that way, though.
@ TY
“I defy you to present any evidence that this equality you assert is actually the case.”
I can only speak anecdotally in the same way that you can only speak anecdotally on this topic. If there is a study or stats then so be it but i don’t know any so i can only speak from what i’ve experienced and that’s what i’ve experienced.
@mark
First off i’d like to say i’m very much enjoying our discourse.
“Christians disrespect and mock people from different denominations and religions all of the time.”
It’s true, doesn’t make it right but it’s true. It actually speaks to the Golden Rule if you will. Treat others as you would like to be treated so mabye the name calling Christians are asking for it and that’s why they get it.
All i know is that name calling is not very loving and Jeues calls us to love everyone so, i don’t know where they get it.
If religious satire is your cup of tea, try:
http://revright.wordpress.com
I only read a couple of atheist blogs other than this one, I don’t know how you people have time to keep up with all these blogs! One of the others I read that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is An Apostate’s Chapel.
I’ll try to get around to checking out some of the others listed here.
“I can only speak anecdotally in the same way that you can only speak anecdotally on this topic. If there is a study or stats then so be it but i don’t know any so i can only speak from what i’ve experienced and that’s what i’ve experienced.”
Having spent 30 years evangelizing as a Christian, and having never once run into an atheist that matches your ‘experience’, makes me dubious about this claim. Besides, what about “I don’t believe in any gods” requires deep explanation?
In that same span of time, I talked to thousands of religious people who could not explain to me what they actually believed.
This is just that same tired, “Atheists are exactly the same as religious people” canard that always falls apart under any examination.
You guys are the one’s that require vast and complex semantic games to support your beliefs. We just need to not buy into them.
Elemenope, you get to make that comparison after the first time an atheist knocks on your door at 8am Saturday morning to convince you that you will be killed by god at Armageddon if you don’t agree to take their literature.
I’m about as much of an aggressive jerk as any atheist is, and I’ll never street evangelize to you. I’ll never claim that you deserve to be tortured for eternity for disagreeing with me. I’ll never try to pass laws legislating my brand of morality. And, for Cthulu’s sake, I’ll never go trolling blogs and forums dedicated to Christian conversation looking to pick a fight.
*Looks around*
Can’t say the same for the Christian folks, sorry.
@Ty
does the fact that you cannot prove that a god (who may or may not want to reveal him/her self to humans assuming that a god figure is an infinite being) doesn’t exist any more than i can prove that he does exist matter? I just wonder because should it chose to stay where it is it can’t be measured doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. either way but an inability to measure something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist does it?
Excuse my ignorance i’m just curious.
“does the fact that you cannot prove that a god (who may or may not want to reveal him/her self to humans assuming that a god figure is an infinite being) doesn’t exist any more than i can prove that he does exist matter?”
Inability to prove a negative is never evidence.
Sorry.
Philip wrote:
(Dis)prove Thor.
I’ll never try to pass laws legislating my brand of morality.
I’ll give you the rest, but not this one. A legislative proclivity for *avoiding* morals-based restrictions is legislating a particular moral viewpoint. (One, being a libertarian, I happen to agree with, BTW.) There is a decent countervailing moral argument that states that if someone is doing something wrong and you have the power to stop it, you have a duty to use that power in order to prevent or punish the wrong act.
By preventing legislation that allows the use of such power (like, for example, the power of the state to tax, punish, prevent, regulate, etc.), you are writing your legislative viewpoint at the exclusion of another. All you can really claim is that your moral standards of acceptability are different than the average Christian; you can’t claim that you have a preference that you don’t believe should be reflected in the law. You seek simply to allow some thing that they wish to disallow; allowing a behavior has as much moral consequence as disallowing the same insofar as there is a disagreement about whether allowing an act or preventing it is the more moral course.
Daniel, thanks for the mention! Much appreciated.
@ null
Exactly, that is my point. Can’t prove it one way or another.
@ Philip,
While there are certain things which we can’t prove, we can at least claim many things with an extremely high degree of confidence.
For example, who disputes that human beings originated in Africa, and not Mesopotamia? Do you dispute that?
Do you dispute that evolution by natural selection is the method which accounts for the diversity of life on planet Earth, whether there is a god or not?
It seems exceedingly foolish, for example, to take the Bible’s word literally.
My point is, while we can’t demonstrate that the Biblical god doesn’t exist, we can demonstrate that certain claims which have been made by religion are not accurate, such as geocentrism.
Sure, we can’t disprove Thor, but if Thor makes a claim, and we can disprove that, and if we can then disprove a series of claims about Thor’s revelations or Thor’s supposed nature, then we’re well on our way to making the case that it is so unlikely that Thor actually exists that it would be a non-controversial point to believe that he doesn’t, in fact, exist.
excitedbigkev.wordpress.com
It might be an interesting meme if other atheist bloggers posted their own top 5 or top 10 favorite atheist blogs that they read. I bet there would be an interesting mix (and bloggers, of course, always appreciate the links!)
@Elemenope
“I’ll give you the rest, but not this one. A legislative proclivity for *avoiding* morals-based restrictions is legislating a particular moral viewpoint.”
I do agree that your general viewpoint is correct in saying for example allowing gay marriage you are in passing laws for your own brand of morality. The real difference is in the general nature of ‘laws’ that religions wish to be in place. These can best be described as I don’t agree with it therefore nobody should be allowed to do it compared to it’s allowed but isn’t mandatory. So the key part is liberal vs. religious viewpoints and not atheist vs. religious view points. It could be argued that atheists have a more liberal viewpoint in general but it’s not a requirement.
So my real disagreement is from a purely liberal viewpoint i.e. yep you may disagree but I’m not forcing you to do it. Now of course there are certain grey areas, for example not having Sunday as a rest day makes it much more difficult for believers to follow there own faith — most people need a job. Another example is the great debate over teaching ID (or god as the creator by the back door) vs. evolution. Is this is case of morals or maybe just good sense?
If you’re including skeptical / philosophical blogs, I like Stephen Law’s Blog. Usually a good refutation of religious arguments found there.
I am thrilled to be considered among such impressive company. Over the past few years, we have witnessed an explosion of growth in the atheist blogosphere. Best of all, I think we’ve also seen significant improvements in quality. Congratulations to everyone who has been a part of this positive development!
I would nominate the Atheist Ethicist
I’d like to second Norman Doering’s request for the criteria used to decide popularity. Knowing what makes some blogs more popular than others would help the rest of us make our writing more relevant to readers.
What catches your eye, what engages your interest and makes you want to follow one blog over another?
Regarding the criteria: it was whatever has caught me eye and interest over the last year or so.
What engages my interest will be different from others, but I look for a professional and interesting writing style, interesting posts, brevity, regular posting, a healthy comments community, and a nice blog design.
Daniel ,
Thanks for including my blog in your list! I’ll definitely post the graphic in my sidebar.
http://bythebookcomics.blogspot.com/
I enjoy this blog:
http://www.atheismblog.blogspot.com/
My favorite is
http://www.WhoHasTimeForThis.com
and there is also
http://AthesitAdvisements.blogpsot.com
@ TY
“what about “I don’t believe in any gods” requires deep explanation?”
Why does believing in a god require a lot of deep explanation other than ‘i think it’s there?’
you don’t have to believe the bible to believe that God is there. the bible also doesn’t say ‘believe that i created the earth, evolution is wrong, slavery is ok then you can be a christian.’
all christians don’t agree on this stuff but that doesn’t mean they don’t believe in the same God. To say i don’t/do believe in any gods is not easier or harder. it’s the religion and rules that come with it that is the confusing part not the existence of a god or not.
>http://whyihatejesus.blogspot.com/<
The title is a little over the top, but the author is literate and thoughtful and will suffer fools gladly.
@Phillip
“To say i don’t/do believe in any gods is not easier or harder.”
To say you believe in something for which there is no evidence is far harder than to say you don’t believe in it. Can you give further examples of things you believe in just because ‘you think it’s there?’
Well, in yet another vain effort to toot my own horn, I’m one of the few African Americans who’s an atheist who runs a website. That makes me rarer than water turning into wine.
My site is:
http://www.threeriversonline.com
It’s mostly about politics but atheism comes up quite a bit.
Also please check out the Acid Jazz Channel (attempt at an online music/politics channel) at the top of the site which features best bits from the likes of Harris, Hitchens and Dawkins.
“Well, in yet another vain effort to toot my own horn, I’m one of the few African Americans who’s an atheist who runs a website. That makes me rarer than water turning into wine.”
mark: I am african american as well, I also have a blog and I right about religion. But my blog is not dedicated to atheism.
I’d add Mano Singham’s blog to the list. http://blog.case.edu/singham/.
Professor Singham, a physicist and defender of evolution, writes on science, history and philosophy of science, religion, politics, the media, education, learning, books, and films and has written several essays exploring belief, explaining how evolution works, etc. His writing lucid, educational and thought-provoking and he takes great care to not only follow the rules of logic but to explain them to his readers.
His book, “The Case of God v. Darwin: Evolution, Religion, and the Establishment Clause” will be published later this year.
@ Jabster
“To say you believe in something for which there is no evidence is far harder than to say you don’t believe in it. Can you give further examples of things you believe in just because ‘you think it’s there?’’”
Well there is no evidence that you would accept. That’s different. I still believe i have expereicned God but that means nothign to you so. As far as i’m concerned there is evidence that can be verified by others but again you probably don’t care about that.
My thought is that never having seen or touched or in any way experienced something doesn’t void it’s existence.
So to your question no but that’s because i’m certain i have experienced God so its not something made up as far as i’m concerned. my experiences validate my believe in the same way your experience of touch validates that something is actually there even if you can’t see hear or smell it.
if you lost all your other senses but touched something would you question if it was there?
Philip, I once had a fever induced dream that I was being chased by gigantic eye boogers (this is not a joke). It was so vivid in my feverish state, that I actually ran down the street in my underwear at 3am trying to escape. Fortunately, I was 11 at the time, so unlikely to be arrested for indecent exposure.
Does that mean that giant eye boogers exist, and mean us harm?
Your subjective personal experiences mean diddly squat when determining what is real and what isn’t. All it means is that you ‘felt’ like something was real once. If that is the new criteria for determining fact, then literally everything is true, since at one point surely someone somewhere believed it.
Now, you are free to believe anything you like. But it seems silly to think that with only your personal experience as evidence anyone else will buy it.
And that’s not even taking into account that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you came on this blog to let everyone know that you saw a black dog chasing a white cat down the street, you’d probably get very few skeptics. Black dogs exist. White cats exist. Dogs chase cats. Nothing in your claim is extraordinary.
If you claimed you saw a green cat chasing a purple dog, you might be asked for evidence, since those things are less likely. But even a simple photograph or second witness would likely be enough, since we can imagine someone painting a cat and dog as a prank, and the angry cat maybe chasing the dog away. It’s less likely than the first, but not totally outside of our experience.
You see, it scales up. The more extraordinary the claim, the greater the evidence a skeptical mind will require.
But you are claiming that an eternal and uncreated being personally created the entire universe which is a truly extraordinary claim. We’ve never seen any evidence that any gods exist, much less this specific one you pray to. There is no evidence that the universe requires a creator. There is no evidence of purposeful design in the universe. In fact, the universe looks pretty much exactly like we’d expect it to look if it was just all one big mostly random mess.
And the only evidence you put forth is that you have a strong feeling it’s true, coupled with some personal and untestable experiences.
Why do you feel this is a compelling argument to make?
@ Ty
“But you are claiming that an eternal and uncreated being personally created the entire universe which is a truly extraordinary claim. We’ve never seen any evidence that any gods exist, much less this specific one you pray to. There is no evidence that the universe requires a creator. There is no evidence of purposeful design in the universe. In fact, the universe looks pretty much exactly like we’d expect it to look if it was just all one big mostly random mess.”
it is an extraordinary claim. why would someone believe in or follow an inextraordinary god? to me the world doesnt’ seam so random but that’s probably due to our differing world views. The complexity of our planet, atmosphere, central nervous system and how things interact speaks to me of design over random but i think thats an issue with the lense in which we view the world.
I think in the end that there is evidence in the world but it’s evidence that you won’t accept and thats ok, you don’t need to accept it, i do.
“Why do you feel this is a compelling argument to make?”
To me it still seams that the university and everything in it is described and explained through the experiences of someone. So why is my experience which has not only been repeated for me but thousands of other people not count? Because you cannot determine the stimuli?
i’d suggest that should you experience someone alone does that diminish the reality of the experience? you are the only one to see a shooting start, was it not there because no one else saw it and you can’t bring it back so that never happened and the shooting star you saw never existed?
That’s a possibility and a way to live. I chose to believe my experiences and the ones of those i trust.
“The complexity of our planet, atmosphere, central nervous system and how things interact speaks to me of design over random but i think thats an issue with the lense in which we view the world.”
All of which have naturalistic explanations. None of which are different from what we’d expect based on our understanding of the universe. And understanding that does not include nor require supernatural agencies to function. Arguments from incredulity don’t carry much water.
“So why is my experience which has not only been repeated for me but thousands of other people not count? Because you cannot determine the stimuli?”
Nope. It has nothing to do with ‘determining the stimuli’. It is because those experiences have no testability, make no falsifiable claims, and have no predictive powers. They are, to be honest, useless for determining what the facts are. If they’re good enough for you, fine. I already said that. But you have to recognize that for skeptics, which is what the large percentage of atheists are, they are not compelling in the slightest.
Lots of people have believed lots of things. Thousands of them. Thousands sacrificed to Zeus, who had oracles who claimed to hear his voice directly. Is that compelling evidence to you that Zeus is true? Of course it isn’t, and it shouldn’t be. The problem is that you fail to apply that same healthy skepticism to your own beliefs.
But you keep inserting these claims into conversations, which means one of two things. Either you are beginning to question your beliefs, and are using us as a sounding board to test this one. Or two, you really do believe that your personal subjective feelings make a compelling argument that has some likelihood of changing an atheists mind.
If it’s the former, keep it up. I’ve been there. The world is a marvelous place once you free yourself from bondage to superstition.
If it’s the later, I fear you are wasting your time. If those arguments actually worked, most of us would still be theists.
This is a very difficult blog to read, especially when you not only believe in God, but have experienced Him. It is like not believing in wind because you have not physically seen it, but you have obviously felt it.
When you are in your darkest hour, and can no longer depend on yourself, you will feel yourself calling out to God, naturally, from your inner being. And you know that it is true.
He has personally healed me, comforts me and has completely changed my life.
Instead of spending your energy trying to disprove Him, you can go to Him. He is waiting for you with open arms.
Go to leestrobel.com. He used to be like you too. This should give you something to chew on…..
@ ty
Sorry to disappont but I’m not questioning. My faith is based on my relationship with God.
What I do find is for me it’s hard to find a good discussion and ifbi don’t continue to challenge my beliefs and test them I’m being irresponsible. To not look at your beliefs is silly i’m just comfortable with a different critera. But thank you for your thoughts I need them to keep my faith real and vibrant.
My hope is not to convert you but just to have good exchange.
I don’t mind if some people choose to be athiests. I can understand the position. As long as they make the effort to understand why some people are religious, and don’t just dismiss them as foolish.
I’m religious, but I actually think the agnostics are quite wise. We really don’t know what’s what in the universe and no one can claim for sure that they do.
sorry for the multi posts, my internet has been cutting out and i didn’t realize that i had posted the thought already.
@Ty
as i read my last response i don’t think i explained enough of why i’m here. i’m here to learn. for me to ignorant of what other believe is irresponsible. So i want to learn what other think and believe. I haven’t had interactions with people like you and the others here who can answer my questions so i’m very intrigued.
To that end if i become or have become a bother or annoyance please tell me and i’ll stop. this is your space and you are all gracious to let me be here and i don’t want to abuse that. My hope is to be gracious, respectful, and not abusive or aggressive and if that’s not how i’m coming across tell me and i’ll do my best to change.
If you’ll indulge one last question i do have one.
“It is because those experiences have no testability, make no falsifiable claims, and have no predictive powers.”
so what would have to happen for an experience with God to be real in your terms? Would a number of people both believers and not seeing, touching and hearing God count? I’m hoping to understand what makes things real for something like yourself so i can speak about my faith and God in your terms and in ways you will respect, if that is possible.
Personally, I think if people were to suddenly believe in God because of a physical sign, it wouldn’t mean very much. It’s easy to believe in what you see. Faith is a much more impressive gesture. :)
As a Christian I was confidently state that many parts of the Bible AREN’T meant to be taken literally. That’s how people communicated their history back then, with stories. That doesn’t lessen its message or impact.
What about mine that I update about once a month? :P
herald7, if it isn’t to be taken literally, why DO so many? Furthermore, HOW are we to interpret it? Did you get a magic decoder ring? Isn’t it a much more reasonable explanation that they are fairytales just like the Greek and Roman myths (or Norse,or take your pick really)? And bloody inaccurate tales too, not to mention misogynistic, slavery endorsing, and full of hate. If you want to live your life, try doing it without the bible as a guide, but rather your conscience as a thoughtful and loving human being. :)
“herald7, if it isn’t to be taken literally, why DO so many? Furthermore, HOW are we to interpret it? Did you get a magic decoder ring? Isn’t it a much more reasonable explanation that they are fairytales just like the Greek and Roman myths (or Norse,or take your pick really)? And bloody inaccurate tales too, not to mention misogynistic, slavery endorsing, and full of hate. If you want to live your life, try doing it without the bible as a guide, but rather your conscience as a thoughtful and loving human being. :)”
Many Christians do take it literally, but many do not. You can’t generalize Christians, any more than you can generalize athiests. ;)
And the ones that don’t take the Bible literally realize that the bad stuff in the Bible is stuff of an ancient world and should not be imitated now. The Bible also says to love thy neighbor and your enemies. It also bashes the upper classes for oppressing the common people. That is where the Bible truly shines. :)
In addition, our culture’s idea of what makes a “thoughtful, loving human being” originally came from the Jewish and Christian beliefs laid down in the Torah and the Bible. The idea that God was a personal figure that cared about his people and encouraged kindness (as opposed to mere worship) was revolutionary and thank goodness it came about. ;)
My blog is pretty new… but I hope people check it out and like it! http://zackfordblogs.wordpress.com
@herald7
@The Howitzer
“In addition, our culture’s idea of what makes a “thoughtful, loving human being” originally came from the Jewish and Christian beliefs laid down in the Torah and the Bible.”
Do you actually realise just how arrogant that sounds – please take some time to think of the implications of what you have stated.
… oops that was just for herald7
I can assure you I was not trying to be arrogant. I was defending something that takes a lot of flack. I think all religions are equal and have no problem with any of them. And I don’t pass judgments on them. ;)
@herald7
You think all religions are equal yet have stated that:
“In addition, our culture’s idea of what makes a “thoughtful, loving human being” originally came from the Jewish and Christian beliefs laid down in the Torah and the Bible.”
That does not make me assume that you believe that all religions or lack of religion are equal. Please explain what you meant by the comment. Would ‘our’ culture not support the idea of a thoughtful human being of it was not for Jewish and Christian beliefs?
It isn’t explicitly atheist in motivation, but http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/ is the cream of the skeptical blog crop.
Hey Daniel,
Thanks for including me in the list. I was away when it came out, but it was a nice surprise to come home to.
Jabster, I understand your concern. :) But despite what you seem to think, I have made it my life’s work to stand up for the underdog, whether it be my own religion, other religions or athiesm. Believe me, I have met truly arrogant, bigoted people in my life, and let them know I disagree (which got them quite annoyed with me!). After this comment, I probably won’t discuss this any further. I just want to defend myself a bit here. :)
I never said one religion was better than another (or that athiests was inferior). I said that culturally and sociologically speaking, most of what we consider values in our society came from Judeo-Christian values in ancient times. It’s the same as saying our present form of government had its origins in earlier democratic governments, such as the ancient Greeks. However, that does not mean we have not been influenced by other religions, quite the contrary. Nor does it mean athiests lack morals. It’s not an “all or nothing” situation. Life rarely is. Hope that helps, have a good day! :)
As much as I hesitate to use Wikipedia as a source, lol, this is good for explaining my statement in a pinch:
“Judeo–Christian (sometimes written as Judaeo–Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism and Christianity, and considered, often along with classical Greco-Roman civilization, a fundamental basis for Western legal codes and moral values.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian
I don’t expect my blog to make your list but here it is anyway.
I more pro-nature than anti-religion. Religion is just an unfortunate misleading distraction for the human race.
So much reading…so little time…
One of my favourite blogs.
http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/
And they have an excellent tv-show as well.
Check them out.
The Atheist Experience.
Mine is icelandic… so I dont stand a chance… :)
Hey but I post many vids…
http://doctore.blog.is/
Soon I will start english one also… I love fighting delusional people :)
Nice list, gonna add most of these to my favorites. I too am a blogger and an Atheist (and former Christian)…but im the new kid on the block…
my site is at http://ragingrev.com
I like this one… “Trapped by the Mormons”
http://nataliercollins.com/weblog/
Here are a couple other sites that Atheists might find interesting.
NoHonor.org
ReligionNewsBlog.com
and, my site!
IntolerantFaith.com
hey man daniel
my story is kind of different…from a zealous Calvinist/fundamentalist to a happily settled universalist.
i was reading ur personal story
you said
“I want to believe the truth, no matter the consequences to my current beliefs. ” (http://unreasonablefaith.com/about/)
Jesus said ‘i am the way, the truth…etc.’
so you really believe in Jesus, don’t you?? :) :)
you might say, Jesus is not the truth.
i would say Jesus is the truth.
also in my book if someone loves the truth as you do. You are a Christian.
You would say, a Buddhist would loves the truth too…
well The Lord himself said…’i will draw all men to myself’…
Perhaps the Buddhist is a christian who has not realized it yet??
i don’t know…but this i know one day ” God will be All In All: 1 Corinthians 15:12-34″
i am not from USA and lived in asia for 23 years…the reason i am saying is this: scriptures are read with a mix of reason and mysticism (isn’t all of major religions eastern : from Judaism to Islam? )
So, pure reason can produce atheism, maybe??? i don’t know…
i was a 7 day creationist…Now i believe in theistic evolution. i still don’t understand the brutality of the old testament, nor the unreasonableness of Jesus’ commands (for example, if a wicked person sues you give all that you have )…
so why do i believe in Jesus, thou i sometimes think he is really weird and messed up with all his commands?? i don’t know…i just can’t shake my belief :)…
the more i live in the west in the USA, i feel, i have something analogous to the madness of the old testament “the west” has produced all of it: from Nazism, atheism, colonialism, Calvinism, conscious torment in eternal hell, 2 world wars, etc. etc…
So why should i trust in any meta narrative of the west…
why should i go to a Richard dawkins who would give me an explanation?
Mr dawkins, what about now??? How do we improve the lives of 23000 children who are dying of hunger every day??? what about them…
he would say…’thats evolution in play: the weakest die and the strong survive… ‘
why is their so much evil if God is good…
well God did 2 greatest evils:(evil is something bad that a person does…that does not mean GOD sins…Sin is missing the mark and God cannot miss any mark) : the fall of Adam and the Crucifixion of Christ . from the greatest evil came greatest good …God becoming man so that God can be all in all.. S
“i still don’t understand…the unreasonableness of Jesus’ commands (for example, if a wicked person sues you give all that you have )…”
Jesus was just trying to say don’t seek huge revenge on someone who has wronged you. To be humble, be the bigger person. It’s similar to turn the other cheek.
herald7
“i still don’t understand…the unreasonableness of Jesus’ commands (for example, if a wicked
person sues you give all that you have )…”
Do you know why you don’t understand what you have wiitten above?Its because you have chosen the wrong book for reference.The bible is the rewritten version of the true Torah.Thats why you will find many contradictions in it.It was written by men to suit their human needs & also due to hatred.You should read the Qoran which rereveils the truth.
Could http://www.badpsychics.co.uk be added to the list? Probably the biggest UK skeptics site.
I don’t know if it counts as a blog, but http://www.normalbobsmith.com – he has Jesus dress ups, and then replies to and posts the hate mail he gets from Christians. It can be pretty funny.
Don’t forget Reasonable Doubts. Excellent Podcast.
http://doubtreligion.blogspot.com/
This blog, which is described as “Highlighting the nonsense from those who have an unhealthy obsession or compulsion with the “supernatural” or the “divine” that is increasingly threatening to insinuate itself into real life, affecting not just those who chose to believe in such things, but those of us who do not, for whatever reason.” is certainly worth a look:
http://www.nullifidian.net/
Another interesting blog can be found here:
http://bridgingschisms.org/
And finally, if you’re the type of person that is interested to know how the garden-variety Christian attempts to defend his or her beliefs, and if you’re not afraid to face-palm or cringe after nearly every paragraph, then my own blog may be of particular interest to you:
http://alphacoursereview.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/what-is-the-alpha-course/
Best Wishes,
S.B
Looking for Florida university sport? Funny fantasy sport names is here http://blogprosport.com/ !
Most actual news about 11 9 cover deception media tower up and Wheel cover http://blogprowatches.com/ .
Hello Derek,
I haven’t read enough Christian blogs in order to recommend any, unfortunately. However, I’ve read quite a few blogs by sceptics who invite dialogue between themselves and theists. The two blogs I mentioned above are good for that, and there’s also http://yunshui.wordpress.com and http://inthenuts.blogspot.com
Best Wishes,
S. Butterfield
For all those Atheists out there,
Please believe there is God.The true & only God,that is the God of Moses,Abraham,Jesus(real) & Mohammad.Don’t believe those ‘Big bang theories’.Those theories are only meant to mislead you from the right path.Think again,if the beginning of the Universe happens in a big bang,then everything will be in pieces,not what you see around you right now,beautiful scenaries & beautiful people.The ‘big bang’ will only happens at the end of the world where everything will be destroyed.God muticulately create the heavens and the earth in six days.Then he rest on his Arasy.How come a big bang create a such a complex living things & universe with its complex systems.Look at your fingers.Can a big bang create such beautiful fingers.A ’small bang’(dynamite )might have blown your head off.
I don’t think you understand what the word “true” entails. It requires verifiability. Can you verify your claims?
Also, you criticize quantum physics… are you an expert? Can you give specific reasons as to why you critique this very well accepted fact of science? (In other words, do you have an argument that actually engages the science?)
If you have questions about the big bang, why don’t you start with entropy. If you can’t understand this very basic principle of physics, then you have no business criticizing.
LRA
I think you yourself don’t understand what’s the meaning of true either.The only thing you understand about truth is to run away from it.You don’t have to use the words verifiability,Quantum physics or entropy or other craps that you create.I don’t have to be a scientist or an expert to answere all your foolish (i may say stupid) questions,pardon me.I cite you a simple example.Does the creation of the Ant,yes I mean the insect ant,which creeps on the earth more difficult to make or your scholars theory of the so called quantum physics which I doubt you yourself does’t understand either.Don’t simply uses science as a base to challenge much more than science(the Universe that you can see & everything in it(its no delusion)that God has created a long time ago.Quantum physics is a chicken feed subject to God.Come back to the right path LRA.I pity you blindly following you atheists scholars without knowing the truth.Youre not too late.What I mean is come back to the true God that is the god of Moses,Abraham,Jesus(real) & Mohammad.
Troll detector on
Results not conclusive. They fit both, “troll” and “angry fundi”
sierrafaith1,
How thoughtfull of you.May God shows you the right path.
My logic show you the right path you unthinking dogmatist…
LRA
If you think youre a thinker & does not defy logic you should ask yourself who made you & everything around you.I vow you and all the Athiests are fools who claims they know every thing, yet they are only guessing & they are also not confident with what they believe.Is it us or you are the unthinking dogmatist…Think back LRA,you still have ample of time.You don’t have to rush to make foolish conclusions.
“Is it us or you are the unthinking dogmatist…”
Is it you.
“If you think youre a thinker & does not defy logic you should ask yourself who made you & everything around you”
You still have to prove that question has any sense.
“I vow you and all the Athiests are fools who claims they know every thing”
I don’t think so. I, at least, don’t claim that.
“…yet they are only guessing & they are also not confident with what they believe”
WE are only guessing? What were bible writers doing? And… we don’t believe.
Dear Francesc
[“Is it us or you are the unthinking dogmatist…”
Is it you.]
I still insist that it is you (if you still asking that stupid question)
[“If you think youre a thinker & does not defy logic you should ask yourself who made you & everything around you”]
You still have’nt answere these questions,why, because you want to defy the truth.You still insist that lousy big bang theory create you and your forefathers.Not even a child or a mad man will accept this.
[You still have to prove that question has any sense.]
I don’t have to prove that question have any sense.If you ask somebody who make this table.Some one may answere,oh…that table is made by John or Henry.Nobody would say..that table was somehow developed by a ‘Big Bang’ recently.That is a simple item, only a table.How about yourself,the insects,the intricate universe.A big Bang would create that?I guarantee only a neuclear bomb will destroy most of them.Can’t you see that your senses is corrupt.
[“I vow you and all the Athiests are fools who claims they know every thing”
I don’t think so. I, at least, don’t claim that.]
It’s fortunate for you not claiming that.You will sway even further from the right path if you claim that.
[“…yet they are only guessing & they are also not confident with what they believe”
WE are only guessing? What were bible writers doing? And… we don’t believe.]
Yes I assure you & your scholars are only guessing.It’s good enough for you not to believe the Bible coz it is not the true book.The Bible is the rewritten version of the Holy book of the true TORAH.A lot of changes have been depicted from the Torah to fit into the Bible.You should read the Qoran,which rereveils the truth.
Excuse me for my harsh words.I am just sponsoring the truth,to save you all from the fires of hell.I get no return for sponsoring these.The only return is from God Almighty.
Wow, your atrocious English makes you hard to follow, but your faulty logic makes you impossible to understand.
Why don’t you do some real scholarly reading?
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/
It’s about truth– which I’m rightly skeptical of you actually possessing… come back and talk when you have something logical to say…
Ah..Ha..Now you’re turning the table by twisting the facts, are’nt you LRA?
I don’t have to be an English literaturelist, or scientist ,naturalists, a mathematician or even a magician to proof what is facts or what is lie.I just need to be a simple man who does’nt have to go around spreading ideas that is of no proof of its genuity & sources created wildly by your scholars.I talk in simple English yet youre saying its hard to follow or logic that’s impossible to understand?It’s just your heart thats too proud or too ungrateful to accept!
There you are…ha..ha..always have that SKEPTICAL thought inside you.Always skeptical even to God!, who pours the rain for you to drink,supply the Oxygen with its intricate composition for you to breath & live without having to process it to suit your lungs needs.Grows in abundance a lot of cereals, fruits & meat for you to fill your belly.Yet your skeptical mind or heart simply defy God by simply closing your eyes & quote that bloody simple word Nature which have the power of creation.Your so called scholarly reading is just a retoric word to proof your point.Is what I have said above illogical or faulty?Don’t simply use the word.Think!I’am not speaking rubbish.I’am adapting from the true source,the words of God Almighty.
Ah..Ha..Now you’re turning the table by twisting the facts, are’nt you LRA?
I don’t have to be an English literaturelist, or scientist ,naturalists, a mathematician or even a magician to proof what is facts or what is lie.I just need to be a simple man who does’nt have to go around spreading ideas that is of no proof of its genuity & sources created wildly by your scholars.I talk in simple English yet youre saying its hard to follow or logic that’s impossible to understand?It’s just your heart thats too proud or too ungrateful to accept!
There you are…ha..ha..always have that SKEPTICAL thought inside you.Always skeptical even to God!, who pours the rain for you to drink,supply the Oxygen with its intricate composition for you to breath & live without having to process it to suit your lungs needs.Grows in abundance a lot of cereals, fruits & meat for you to fill your belly.Yet your skeptical mind or heart simply defy God by simply closing your eyes & quote that bloody simple word Nature which have the power of creation.Your so called scholarly reading is just a retoric word to proof your point.Is what I have said above illogical or faulty?Don’t simply use the word.Think!I’am not speaking rubbish.I’am adapting from the true source,the words of God Almighty.
(Fail to publish;this is another version)
yeah, one of the most attractive properties of religion is that you don’t need even to read. Years of study? Forget it! See Solomon here, he knows because… because…
Unreasonable faith strikes again!
Fransesc…
Aren’t you a physicist?
@Solomon: “I talk in simple English”
No, you really don’t.
“yet youre saying its hard to follow or logic that’s impossible to understand?It’s just your heart thats too proud or too ungrateful to accept!”
No, that’s not it. Your god is telling you lies.
Hold it! Just hold it…not too fast Francesc,
There you are, even if you live for a thousand years or read piles of your Masters books you would not understand even maybe the simplest of Gods creation, let say your “shit”.Yes your shit that comes from your intestine, and God knows that fact.You don’t have to go far as of discussing Big Bang,no need,you’ll be more confused.Oh…I think you are the one who ought to do more reading.God asks human to do more than reading,to study anything you can think off, its depicted in the Qoran,in Gods own words.But he understands no soul can catch up with many knowledge in a short life time.In fact the first word he thought the Prophet Mohammad is “Read Mohammad,Read..in the name of Allah the most gracious,the most merciful(you can find this phrase in the Qoran).
The Prophet is someone who does’nt know how to read or to write,but he has a pure soul that even the highest of knowledge is poured into his heart.That’s why God send this Prophet to tell all the human the wondrous,the magic,of God’s creation.I’ve warned you Francesc don’t
simply quote silly retoric words,it will eat you back.Is this what you call unreasonable faith?Sorry for my harsh words. I’am just giving you an insight.And if you have’nt know God also explains what you understand by Big Bang theory.Only your Atheists scholars is afraid & worry to reveil them.Read them yourself in the Qoran.I can always guide anybody who want’s to search for truth.
You have still to prove that there exists such an entity wich you can identify as “God”.
“God asks human to do more than reading,to study anything you can think off”
That sentence reminds me of the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII. But it reminds me too the destruction of Alexandria’s library, because all the knowledge we need is in the Quran. Fundamentalism is a dangerous path to follow.
You have said that the Bible is full of lies, unlike Quran or Torah. How do you know? How can you distinguish between the True and a lie? Lots of christians are so certain about their beliefs as you are, because God let’s him distinguish the true with their hearts. You claim the same, but the outcome is a different true.
Both, christians and muslims are being delusional, because they put their beliefs before their logic. I’d rather distinguish the true -an approximation to a practical knowledge- with my mind that with my blood-pumping organ (being figurative here).
Impatient for my reply Dear Francesc,
Does’nt what you see or touch around you enough to prove that there is God.Is that ‘all’ Real enough or Logic enough?As I’ve depicted earlier there ‘must be a creator’ in a certain creation.A table or your ring does not pop up by itself.That’s the simplest of logic that everybody or even you will accept.Now can you imagine
does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?Think wisely…Think again & again…And God, can make you to be alive,with the soul or ‘Roh’ that he put into your body and suddenly a dead body becomes alive n kickin and when he took the ‘Roh’ out suddenly the body becomes dead & moveless.Does that enough of magic to proof the existence of God?Other proof is Gods words himself depicted in the Qoran.God said..”.Oh human, I am Allah, the only God,who creates the Heavens & the Earth & everything in it” and theres many more phrase as proofs.
Beware Francesc there is always the ‘SATAN’ around you, who will whisper to your ears & who will shake your heart not to have faith in God’s existence.
[Both, christians and muslims are being delusional, because they put their beliefs before their logic.]
Before I forget….I think you will take back these words after you have read my earlier explaination.And the word delusion is just another word creations,never mind…I can understand that…(you can’t get the kick out of it).
[That sentence reminds me of the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII.]
Oh..I pity that you have’nt know the whole part of the story of the developments of religion. Let me brief you…As I’ve mention the word”God asks human to do more than reading,to study anything you can think off”. God’s religion is not what you understands only to muslims after Prophet Mohammad.God’s religion is for all human’s and have pave the way since the First human ‘ADAM”.Adam have known since he is still in heaven that he is God’s creation.In every civillisation since Adam to Mohammad there are several prophets assign by God, to show the true path or religion to their people or subjects.So its not fair for you to say the sentence is for the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII.For the fate of the Alexandria’s library history was told that it was either destroyed by Julius Caesar,An Alexandrian themselves or Caliph Omar a moslem.Only God knows who destroys it. But God does not like people who is a destroyer,moreover books,knowledge or manuscrips that is vital to man.Surely its not the work of Caliph Omar.
On what argument you are refering that Fundamentalism is dangerous to follow.If you feel Fundamentalism is a dangerous path to follow, than that is your view.God does not sponsor Fundamentalism.God sponsores truth, a way of life that is vital to humans,a set of laws that is fair to all beings,not to be cruel,to love the brotherhood of men.Where is the danger in that?
Not ‘all’ the knowledge we need is in the Qoran.Some were in but many were not,thats the task for we to find,explore,investigate.God don’t spoon fed us all the time.Anyway searching,analysing,experimenting knowledge would be more interesting ain’t it?Qoran acts as a guide, so that we just can’t simply made a guess or conclusion to something that we have not found its truth yet.A guide into the real & magical world that its knowledge is beyond the reach of man, and it gave clues into probing into something.
I know the bible is full of lies because God told it so in the Qoran.God wanted to resurface the truth which have longed been manipulated.The biggest twist in the Bible is claiming God have a Son.God is something pure and the highest, how come his life is similar to human,having family’s I suppose.And you will find many contradictions in the Bible.It was written by men to suit their own needs & due to hatred.Just imagine in their teachings, a human, a Padre or Father can forgive sins.Its an advantage to human to have this power.
They can get abused or even corrupt being given this power.Only God can forgive sins.It’s easy to distinguish between a true or a lie Francescs.You yourself can determine it.There will always be one truth. The truth of the ‘Truth’ and the other one must be a lie.And the truth of the ‘Truth” is always sourced from Allah the Almighty.
The Christians are deceived by their scholars and by themselves because they have shut their eyes and their ears after hearing the truth, close their minds to the succumbs of reality & logics & of mystics.We did’nt claim the same with the christians,we claim only the truth which God have put forth.Only a clean,pure,true heart can determine the truth.A sick heart will defer.
Not every human has a strong mind that they could solely depend upon Francescs.They should be guided.Thats where God put it,to appoint a human to guide his species.God does not sent other species or Angels to send his messages.If God send angels, men might have run away in fear even before the Angels starts to speak.
Thank you Solomon
“Does’nt what you see or touch around you enough to prove that there is God.Is that ‘all’ Real enough or Logic enough?As I’ve depicted earlier there ‘must be a creator’ in a certain creation”
No, it’s not proof enough, as I can explain it by non-magical ways. There must be a creator for a creation, but I don’t see a creation around me.
“does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?”
Yes
“And God, can make you to be alive,with the soul or ‘Roh’ that he put into your body”
“Beware Francesc there is always the ‘SATAN’ around you, who will whisper to your ears & who will shake your heart not to have faith in God’s existence”
You don’t have proofs either that there exists the soul, nor satan
“God’s religion is for all human’s and have pave the way since the First human ‘ADAM”.Adam have known since he is still in heaven that he is God’s creation”
The creation myth is just that, a myth. We know we evolved from extint apes.
“So its not fair for you to say the sentence is for the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII”
Sorry, I meant s. VIII, not XVIII. Muslims are responsible of the introduction in europe of a lot of cultural advancements. I was trying to say that your religion is not a handicap for science -at least not more than christianism is- but it depends on the people. I’m glad that you consider knowledge important, and that you don’t limit yourself to the Quran, but you know that’s not the opinion of all the muslims out there .
“If you feel Fundamentalism is a dangerous path to follow, than that is your view.God does not sponsor Fundamentalism.”
Crusades. Jihad. Genocide. If god does not sponsor fundamentalism, He did a pretty bad job explaining himself.
“I know the bible is full of lies because God told it so in the Qoran.”
And how do you know Qoran is the word of God? Because Qoran says that. So??? Neither the Bible, Torah, Qoran or Book of Mormon are proofs of anything as they are books.
“The biggest twist in the Bible is claiming God have a Son.God is something pure and the highest, how come his life is similar to human,having family’s I suppose.”
Well, He’s Almighty God, He can do everything. Are you saying he couldn’t have a son? Because Zeus can…
“And you will find many contradictions in the Bible.It was written by men to suit their own needs ”
I agree with that sentence. The problem is… the same you think about the bible, christians think about the Qoran, and I think about all “revelation books”.
There are a lot of gods out there, the only difference between you and me is that I believe in a god less than you.
[There must be a creator for a creation, but I don’t see a creation around me.]
Come on..you don’t see a creation around you..? John..! Simon!…anyone one there, please help me on these…our dear friend Francesc cannot see a creation around him…That is the most Blantant! irresponsible word came out from someone(excuse me).Put forth your non magical explaination if youre the person of truth!
[“does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?”
Yes]….A madman or a child would not answere like you did…
‘If you don’t believe there is a soul or Roh, you might have not been talking to me right now Fransesc.(being alive)Youll be a dead meat(excuse me again).And if you did not believe there is SATAN, there would have no accounts of killings,lying,cruelty,mischiefs,destruction etc. in this world.
I don’t also have to proof that there is also “Wind”, “Gravity” or “magnetic fields” if you get my point Francesc.
[The creation myth is just that, a myth. We know we evolved from extint apes.]
Can you be more specific from which ape your forefathers evolve from?Is it the chimpanzee,orangutan,gorilla( I won’t choose this one),monkey or thousands or more species.
How long does these apes have to wait before their brains & minds develope in line with their body or physique?Is it untill your masters Charles Darwin or Richard Dawkins decide so?
Thank you & I thank God for recognizing the Muslims as you said(I don’t specify only muslims but the whole human race that is on the true path) which have contribute to cultural advancement or science.Not all muslims infact like other religion have fully understood what is tought or expected by God,but everybody including you are still in the process of learning & discovering.Let the process be a
conclusive one without hurriedly jumped into the wrong conclusions.
The Almighty did not do a pretty bad job explaining himself, its the human that is doing the pretty bad job of analysing or accepting it.Francesc,God says that most human are ungratefull with what God has granted them.If someone give you a present, will you be grateful to him? I don’t know about crusade, but Jihad is willing to sacrifice oneself or ones blood no other than to beholds the truth and to support or defend Gods religion.Jihad is not about going around killing other humans without course.
Yes now what you see Qoran is a book.But before it becomes a book, ther is a process behind it.It is the word of God poured into Mohammads soul in the form of (Wahyu) or thoughts, through the mediator the Angel “Jibrail”.These thoughts are dictated by Mohammad to his followers and recorded in written form & copiled into a Qoran.These Wahyu are send by God gradually within the lifespan of the Prophet.
You ask me how do I know Qoran is the word of God.I know because God told it so that Qoran and Torah are his true words and this is told in the Qoran.The proof of its truth was what is in its content.It makes you think,analyse and nothing is true and very true unless it contradicts.Contradictions with the realities,the logics,the mystics , and you can also analyse Qoran does not contradict.Why is the human heart so difficult to accept something which is very clear & simple in front of his eyes is because his heart is blackened by sins.(I’am not refering to any specific person).
Francesc, God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of.God is different from everything or anything.Only Mohammad have met God & he could’nt even describe it.Does that shows how special is god.God to look like human??That would put God standards to shame like Zeus or Thor.What is there like Zeus or Thor one could boast about.They are both crafted by men.If a fly snatch something from them,they could not even able to get it back.Does that put some senses in you?
I did not say anything about God could’nt have a son.I’am saying that God is too pure to be of the same standard as human,that is by having a son.
And don’t say that again,I can’t bear see or knowing you burned in hell!!
Lastly thank you for agreeing with me on the phrase for the many contradictions in the Bible(at lease you came to your senses). But to me I pity those who does not read the true content of the Qoran,Torah,Zabur or Injil,rather than find other books which could sway them from the right path even further.
I now vow to you and to others that there is and surely be only one God(if not each god must have grouped his creations onto his own and the gods may have been fighting each other)that is the God of Moses,Abraham,Jesus(the real one) & Mohammad.
It’s ALLAH the most gracious & most merciful.It’s not too late to repent.
[Put forth your non magical explaination if youre the person of truth!]
Read. Sorry, but it’s not a narration like “Genesis” that i could explain in a few words. The beginning of the universe, the creation of galaxies, stars and finally the earth, the arise of life and his evolution to nowadays species… do you really think I can explain all that to you like “Goddidit”? You can surely find divulgation books about those matters, if you are really interested in.
[A madman or a child would not answere like you did]
Nop. They may answer that God pop itself, and then He created the universe.
[And if you did not believe there is SATAN, there would have no accounts of killings,lying,cruelty,mischiefs,destruction etc. in this world.]
Simply humankind, why do you need more?
[I don’t also have to proof that there is also “Wind”, “Gravity” or “magnetic fields” if you get my point Francesc.]
There is a little difference between existing non visible things and non-existing non visible things. I can prove the firsts, i can test his effects once and again when I want, I can even measure them. You can’t test nor god either satan.
[Can you be more specific from which ape your forefathers evolve from?Is it the chimpanzee,orangutan,gorilla( I won’t choose this one),monkey or thousands or more species.]
It’s none of nowadays species. It was a common ancestor of all the apes we know now.
[How long does these apes have to wait before their brains & minds develope in line with their body or physique?Is it untill your masters Charles Darwin or Richard Dawkins decide so?]
Are you kidding right? Even a little child could understand that the evolution of a species from another doesn’t mean that the previous species should disappear.
[Jihad is not about going around killing other humans without course]
I suppose we have different definitions about the word “killing” then.
[It is the word of God poured into Mohammads soul in the form of (Wahyu) or thoughts, through the mediator the Angel “Jibrail”.]
You can only know that because Mohammads said so. The little green leprechauns on my fridge said me that I’m the next prophet. I expect you to acknowledge that and behave according to my words.
[Only Mohammad have met God & he could’nt even describe it.Does that shows how special is god]
Or does it show how little imagination had Mohammad?
[What is there like Zeus or Thor one could boast about.They are both crafted by men.]
Facts are, we have the same proofs of the existence of Zeus, Thor and Allah’s. Maybe -only saying- Allah’s is just as crafted by men as Zeus.
[And don’t say that again,I can’t bear see or knowing you burned in hell!!]
Thanks for your concern, I aprecciate it. But if it exists an almighty and fair god, he won’t send me to hell :-)
Ha ha ha…My dear Francesc,
Do you think you can escape with what you have said.Let me tell you how your words have trapped you…Don’t panic..! Take a deep breath first….
[Sorry, but it’s not a narration like “Genesis” that i could explain in a few words.]
You know why you cannot explain it, because you or your scholars are a weak human being compared to God, who can explain it in simple terms,who understands his own creations,who knows its secrets.Because GODDIDIT! And what will happen after this Fransesc, the FUTURE…if youre the human of truth…Richard Dawkins .have any comments on this?And you can’t even answer the simple question,who gave you life?
At least the madman or the child have a more decent answere than what you did,I can understand they use the word POP up,but still they recognise the existence of God…
[You can only know that because Mohammads said so.]
It’s not as simple as what you put it Francesc.Mohammad did’nt even know how to read or write, or even study basic principles of science.Does it occur to you that a man of that background could come out with something so poetic,so scientific,so logic,that even the most prolific scientist can come out during his time and that was around 1800 years ago!He talk about the Universe,Science,how human came about,from the sperm,the Laws,the stories of the past & even what will happen in the future and many more if you read the Qoran.
[You can’t test nor god either satan.]
Yes youre right.God or Satan is not like any test tube experiment that could be tested.God is too pure to be compared,not to mention the word tested(its not fit for God), while Satan is made from the tounges of fire.So what’s the use of testing, if it cannot be tested.But we can feel its existence.How?Gods existence is with his creations & satans existence with the evil deeds inflicks upon one.
You say[It’s none of nowadays species. It was a common ancestor of all the apes we know now.].You imply that previous species have extinct.
[Are you kidding right? Even a little child could understand that the evolution of a species from another doesn’t mean that the previous species should disappear.]..Now you say the previous species does not dissapear!
Caught you red handed…
And another thing…why not it be the other way round,why not apes evolve from human & the human become extinct.Would it be more exciting the world became the “planet of the apes”(I like that movie).Charles Darwin will cry from his grave.Or Richard Dawkins must have witnessed when men becomes apes??
[Or does it show how little imagination had Mohammad?]
Oh..I’am gonna laugh at this…ha ..ha..ha..let me finish my laugh…
Ok…I’ve told you earlier that “God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of. God is different from everything or anything.”
How the hell Mohammad could describe it!!God’s comparable to Nothing!!
Ha ha ha… (x 10 to the power of infinity.)
[Allah’s is just as crafted by men as Zeus.]
Emm..who do I call …Michaelangelo!…Leonardo Da Vinci! can you craft for me the image of Allah??…They would probably answer…Are you NUTS!!
Now back to serious matters…
I’am very concern you or anybody going to be burned in hell because its a place where nobody wants to be.Why not simply choose the splendour of heaven.Its very simple to go there.All God wants is only recognition,and gratefulness.Not to worship anything else but only him.Get back to God,he will forgive you all.Come back before its too late.Be a simple human Francesc,life is too short…Don’t make a mockery out of yourself..You cannot challenge God with science,science is a chicken feed subject to God.
Allah is most gracious & most mercifull,most intelligent & many more,he won’t simply sent anybody to hell without cause..But he will sent to hell those who commits the greatest Sin that is …Those who take other Gods rather than only him & those who deny his existence.
Francesc I’am getting exhausted, all you do is only denial,you does not answere most of my questions.But for the benefit of you and others I will continue my mission for the love of human being & God.
I’m answering you all the questions I can, but the one when you are demanding me to summarize in a few words physics, astronomy, chemic and biology. If you really want to know, there are lots of books about those sciences; I’m not the best one to explain that, and you won’t understand at all when summarized.
[And you can’t even answer the simple question,who gave you life?]
No one gave me life. Why should be a “who”? Life is “only” chemical processes working together.
[At least the madman or the child have a more decent answere than what you did,I can understand they use the word POP up,but still they recognise the existence of God…]
They have a more decent answer because they agree with your fairy tales. Great argument.
[Does it occur to you that a man of that background could come out with something so poetic,so scientific,so logic,that even the most prolific scientist can come out during his time and that was around 1800 years ago]
Greeks where doing non-written poetry before christ. Maybe even around 1.500 years before Mohammad. That’s supposed to be the origin of illyad (iliada? I don’t know the name in english).
The scientific and logic part… bullshit. Give me an example of a thing mohammad said -and it’s true- in the Qoran that we can’t find in previous philosophers/scientists.
[Gods existence is with his creations & satans existence with the evil deeds inflicks upon one]
No, it’s not. Evil deeds are result of our humankind and natural causes. You can’t use the existence of god to prove the creation and the creation to prove the existence of god; I’m pretty sure that’s not the logic Mohammad explained to you in the Qoran.
[You imply that previous species have extinct]
[Now you say the previous species does not dissapear!]
That’s what happens when you try to simplify, the other person may miss something. My bad, I thought you could understand it.
We know previous species have extinct. Dinosaurs, as an example. But it’s not necessary for a previous specie to dissapear. It doesn’t happen always. And of course it doesn’t happen at the same time. Do you understand the difference between “always” and “sometimes”, don’t you?
That’s again a simplification, please before answering that, read a little more about our evolution. You will find plenty of books or internet resources speaking about it.
We evolved from a species similar -in some characteristics- to nowadays ape species; as chimps are the closer specie to us, probably that specie was also similar to chimps. Some of them evolved into a more human-like ape. Some of them evolved into chimps-like apes “later”. And the human-like ape (probably very close to Australophitecus) evolved into human.
Chimps are still evolving, if they don’t extinguish it will arise another species from them. But there is not any necessity for this species to be more human-like. There is not any necessity for this future species to be more smart, either.
[Why not it be the other way round,why not apes evolve from human & the human become extinct]
It could have happened that way. Humans could have appeared and then become extinct (by a disease, a natural disaster or by being killed by another species). But as we are still here, that means we are not extinct and it didn’t happened.
In fact, we are not the only human species that has been around. As I’ve said before, there was Australophitecus before. Homo Habilis too. Homo Erectus. They are our ancestors, so I don’t know if you want to use the word “extinct” for them. Strictily speaking they are extinct, but we may be their descendants. But there where too Neanderthals. That’s a human species we didn’t came from, it’s another branch that became extinct and lost, probably because of the competition of our own ancestors.
[I’ve told you earlier that “God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of. God is different from everything or anything.”]
They are a lot of unexisting things you can’t imagine.
[Emm..who do I call …Michaelangelo!…Leonardo Da Vinci! can you craft for me the image of Allah??…They would probably answer…Are you NUTS!!]
Probably not. They have represented God in different ways. An arm coming from a cloud. An old beraded man surrounded by light. If they didn’t represented Allah is because they were christians, and because your religion explicitly forbids it, under death punishment.
But that’s a childish argument you are doing here. The fact that his image has not been crafted doesn’t mean that the idea of your God wasn’t created by human minds.
[All God wants is only recognition,and gratefulness]
It’s not fair. He must know I have the same amount of proof about the existence of Allah than about the existence of christian God, Zeus, Thor or Ra. If he want recognition he should have offered me proofs, or have done me a religious fundie, without the ability to use logic. I’m mind-opened, when he speaks to me I will answer his call. But let me say… that probably won’t happen, because he probably doesn’t exist.
I’m calling Poe on Solomon …
What do you mean by Poe Jabster?
I don’t get the meaning.Can you clarify
Poe’s law. You can check on wikipedia, but basically Jabster is saying that you are not a true believer, but a troll having fun here.
I don’t agree. I think Poe’s law applies in a religious site, not here.
On what argument you are refering me as an unbeliever or
a troll having fun Jabster?
He may think no one can have such delirious ideas about God. I don’t expect so much from human mind :-p
Sorry Francesc,
I will like to correct this mistake
[Or Richard Dawkins must have witnessed when men becomes apes??] to
[Or Richard Dawkins must have witnessed when ape becomes men??
Prave
I’ve browse through your comments and I find it “ah youre refering to the wrong source or choice of books”
to make your point, but not to dissapoint you I try to solve your curiosity.
You are saying I’am going to hell based on the book that you are refering to…
(Bible or whatsoever)
Its not that simple.You or I or anybody will go to Hell, if and only if they are infidel,
they take other gods as god rather than Allah almighty,or they commit a lot of sins and fail to repent before they die.
Kurt Godels theorem prooves nothing, he is just confusing himself &
others.He just creates his sets of Law, base on mathemathics & go round
& round within his scope & try to make it to fit his theorem.I bet you’ll be more confuse at what he
is putting forward.His mathematical background appear as if he’s a prominent figure,
(being awarded Albert Einsteins award)an idol to represent a bunch of people who
can’t accept the very simple logic,the
existence of only one true God .That’s why his theorem is “incomplete”[Incompleteness Theorems](just joking…)
The Prophet Mohammad does not need to know to read or to write, yet he is
awarded with the most wondrous of knowledge because why, he is the man of truth
and is always craving for,that’s why he is blessed with this special gifts.
I don’t have to go through or comment the chapters of the Bible or whatsoever that you have mention because
all the words are made up by your scholars.
[But this does not help my sincere, intelligent, full of integrity atheistic friends who all have a very valid set of arguments
- both sound and valid]
Youre claim your Atheists friends sincere,intelligent,and have a very valid & sound set of arguments??
I claim they are a bunch of liars,lack of thoughts,and a very lame understanding of logic.
They can’t even answere who gave them live.Neither can you.
Yes I support your vow of loving one another & make the world a better place to live but without a true path, a true way of life
history have proven that this world since Adam to Mohammad have not been at peace or at ease most of the time.
“I claim they are a bunch of liars,lack of thoughts,and a very lame understanding of logic”
Well, at least I don’t think you are a liar.
Francesc,
If you don’t think I’am a liar then why is it so hard to believe what I’ve said….?
Kah….kah ….kah….
Excuse me……
Fransecs,
I will attend to your May 26,5.39 am comments later since I’am quite busy with
work right now.Thank you for clarifying the word Poe on behalf of Jabster.
I think you have been misguided, of course :-)
I will try to follow your comments, but sometimes I lose the line of a debate because of blog’s structure and simultaneusly debating
Kodie,
[@Solomon: “I talk in simple English”No, you really don’t.]
Is this the only thing you have to say?
Are you afraid to elaborate?
If my God is telling me lies what you see around you,including yourself is also lies,not real.
All I want to say is : Naughty-Nun-Fun. Cum and get me boys!
I just want to say : Naughty-Nun-Fun. Cum and get me boys !
Sister Twister,
Don’t behave like a hooker, and like a nun either.
Dear Francesc,
All the books or knowledge on science, chemistry or biology that you are suggesting me indeed contain
surplus of information which men have painstakingly search or compiled.But God knows more than that.
He create us and the Universe.He knows everything,the things you see or cannot see.The
things that are real or hidden.But nothing can surpassed Gods words that is the Qoran.
[No one gave me life. Why should be a “who”? Life is “only” chemical processes working together.]
What??…Do I hear it right? No one gave you life??!!
Have you or anybody ever wonder or think how they came about to be alive?Is it a dream or is it real.
A black man may ask…..Hey..maan…who brought me here maan…I don’t want to be in this hectic world maan…
I just want to be coool…maan..Everybody and in some parts of their life would think of this,how they came about
to exists. Earlier you said…
[“does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?”
Yes]
You said Yes.If youre not just only speaking can your ice-cream just pop itself?
That’s where the question arise, who prepare my ice-cream?
That also pose the question who gave me life?
Its not wise or smart to say why there should be a “who”.
And what nonsense life is only chemical processes working together.
Bring me the hydrochloric acid,mix it with some gel,a spice of sodium chloride,wow..now it
have grown into a jelly blob..But wait…Can it just ‘only’ crawl on it’s belly?
[They have a more decent answer because they agree with your fairy tales. Great argument.]
If they were all fairy tales then I’am not here to tell them.
Iliad are only epic poems on the Trojan wars,though claim as the masterpiece in Greek Literature,
but depict heroic & timeless themes.It also talk about Gods, Zeus and its familys.Even though
its writings is way behind Mohammads periods but its contents is way behind the truths contain in the Qoran.
[The scientific and logic part… bullshit. Give me an example of a thing mohammad said -and it’s true-
in the Qoran that we can’t find in previous philosophers/scientists.]
Theres plenty and one of it says God creates everything, and that includes your Shitt !!!
Can you find anything close to it in the previous philosophers/scientists Francesc?? CAN YOU???
[No, it’s not. Evil deeds are result of our humankind and natural causes.]
Do you claim that raping,robbery,treachery,genocide are results of mankind & natural causes?
Are you on their side?They should get themselves a job rather than robbing,get themselve a wife
rather than raping & stop killing innocent women or children for their political or personal interests.
[You can’t use the existence of god to prove the creation and the creation to prove the existence of god;
I’m pretty sure that’s not the logic Mohammad explained to you in the Qoran.]
I can also imply it this way;
You can’t use the existence of the Carpenter to prove that Table creation and the Table creation
to prove the existense of the Carpenter.Now does that make sense?
[They are a lot of unexisting things you can’t imagine.]…(is this again the slip of your mind?)
Of course..how can you imagine things that does not exists.I could understand that.
But God, the purest,the highest,exists, yet nobody can imagine what he’s like, even the Prophet
who have met him.Caught you again….
Solomon:2 vs Francesc:nil (just for humour)
God is the most and the very most intelligent Francesc.If Gods image is depicted like those idols you see
around, or it might even be Thor or Zeus,…not forgetting Ra(sorry Ra, I almost miss you),
someone may have put a piece of shit on his nose, and he will not be able to wipe it out.
And one more thing,no one or artist came across their mind to depict a potrait of Mohammad during his lifetime,
& if that happens, his enemies might have set on fire or stepped on his photos today.
First you imply that previous species have extinct.
Then you say the previous species does not dissapear!
[But it’s not necessary for a previous specie to dissapear].
And now youre saying it’s not necessarry for them to dassapear!!
Which one is final Francesc?
Am I the one who fails to understands ones slip of the mind OR
are you the one who have become inconsistent with your uncoach views?
If your ancestors is the ape Francesc,why have your ancestors forgets to fuck their ‘wifes’
front to front?Oh…nevermind,they may prefer what have been the practice of other or all
of their animal friends don’t they?And do the humans have forgotten how to use their feets
to hold things or put their food into their mouth?Animals will always be animals don’t they.
And why other animals does not evolve into human?Why only choose the ape?
You may probably answer the ape is much close in appearance with human.
Is that so difficult for God to create, an animal which looks so close to human?
[But that’s a childish argument you are doing here. The fact that his image has not been crafted doesn’t
mean that the idea of your God wasn’t created by human minds.]
Let me see…how about start imagining God with the ‘ nose’ I presumed.Is that what you mean?
You can imagine anything you like, but not the slightest is equivalent to God.
[If he want recognition he should have offered me proofs, or have done me a religious fundie, without the
ability to use logic. I’m mind-opened, when he speaks to me I will answer his call.]
Who are we Francesc to make the rules around here.We are no more disdain than the dust compared to God.
It’s already too fortunate God supply us with oxygen.God’s gifts are aplenty.If all the water in the seas & the oceans were ink,
and another world of sea water is added,it would still not enough to write the amount of Gods gift .
Even in a country,or community or institution we are
subjected to certain rules & regulations.This is the kingdom of God were talking about.It should run according to his system.
Yes you may have proof about the existence of the functionless christian God, Zeus, Thor or Ra.
Do you expect Zeus, Thor or Ra to create the Universe,to run its systems.They can’t even create themselves.They
are motionless idols created or crafted by men.What a silly God one would depend upon.
Allah address himself to humans through his messenger Mohammad.Is’nt that enough of proof or religious fundie?
I don’t thing a King would go through that rigorous details as in the Qoran to address his subjects.
But God laid it all down…For US,and for YOU!
Now do I sound like a fundamental religious fundie or a troll having fun.(have you anything to say Jabster?)
We have been so much indulge in a heated argument Francesc.Let me tell you, truth will always resurface.Its
in the system,like the earths movement,the laws of gravity,which will always fits regardless time or space.We
cannot challenge it.And we can’t find any contradictions.This argument is not about who wins or who lose.It’s all
about finding the true path.Try to find Gods path.He will answer your call or prayer if you exercice a little bit patience.
Now let me tell the brighter side of it to cheer everybody up.Today I like to tell a little bit about heaven.
The inhabitants of heaven will be dressed in green thin or thick silk.They will be circulated with glasses
and jars containing the water from the spring call “salsabil”.The water is whitish in color & have an excellent taste,
They are shaded by the trees of heaven which bears fruits which is easy & convenient to pluck.And below them
flows a river.There are four rivers,the river of milk,wine(non-intoxicated),honey and non-salty taste.
They will be surrounded by forever young ‘Bidadari” or beautiful young women.Thats for all in these session.
More of these stories will come later
I will off on weekends,see in another 2 days.
All the books or knowledge on science, chemistry or biology that you are suggesting me indeed contain
surplus of information which men have painstakingly search or compiled]
Then, when those books contradict the histories told in an ancient book, what should we do?
[He create us and the Universe]
Mohammad’s God or christian’s God? Or the FSM? How can you distinguish that allegedly creator?
[Have you or anybody ever wonder or think how they came about to be alive?]
Part of it is called “abiogenesys”. It’s still far from being the final answer, but science is working on finding it.
[If youre not just only speaking can your ice-cream just pop itself?]
[You can’t use the existence of the Carpenter to prove that Table creation and the Table creation
to prove the existense of the Carpenter]
Can your God just pop itself? Who created your God? I suppose your answer is that God existed always. My answer is the universe existed “always” in some form.
Or should I pray GGod, who created God? Because anything come from nothing, ya know.
[...but its contents is way behind the truths contain in the Qoran]
Still waiting for that prove
[F: Give me an example of a thing mohammad said -and it’s true- in the Qoran that we can’t find in previous philosophers/scientists.]
[S:Theres plenty and one of it says God creates everything, and that includes your Shitt !!!]
When I said true I was meaning with testable evidence. Your example has two problems. One is that you still have to prove it being true. The second is that there are plenty of creation myths in other cultures, far before the Qoran. So indeed, we can find that in previous writers.
[Do you claim that raping,robbery,treachery,genocide are results of mankind & natural causes?]
Yes. But being “natural” doesn’t mean being “right”. I’m not on their side, but they are not doing anything an animal couldn’t do.
[But God, the purest,the highest,exists, yet nobody can imagine what he’s like, even the Prophet
who have met him.Caught you again….]
Again… I don’t believe your God exists, you still have to prove that assertion
[Solomon:2 vs Francesc:nil (just for humour)]
Lol, that’s your opinion, I don’t agree.
[someone may have put a piece of shit on his nose, and he will not be able to wipe it out]
Because they don’t exist, nor your god exist.
[his enemies might have set on fire or stepped on his photos today]
That was my point too. Your religion forbids his representation.
[First you imply that previous species have extinct.
Then you say the previous species does not dissapear!
And now youre saying it’s not necessarry for them to dassapear!!
Which one is final Francesc?]
I’ve explained that to you before, please read again my previous comment. It’s not so hard to understand.
[If your ancestors is the ape Francesc,why have your ancestors forgets to fuck their ‘wifes’
front to front?]
?? You may want to try other positions than the classic one. Only suggesting, you can do with your sexual life wathever you want.
[And do the humans have forgotten how to use their feets to hold things or put their food into their mouth?]
Our feets evolved to do more easy the bipedal locomotion.
[Animals will always be animals don’t they]
Indeed. They don’t digi-evolve into another thing, they evolve across generations. Anyway, humans are also animals.
[And why other animals does not evolve into human?Why only choose the ape?]
Science. It’s been proven, they are the animals most related to us.
[Is that so difficult for God to create, an animal which looks so close to human?]
It’s not, a magical explanation is an allowance to do anything. God could have created us with wings, too, and they could be pretty useful. But your God lacks off imagination.
[You can imagine anything you like, but not the slightest is equivalent to God]
Only because Qoran says so?
[They are motionless idols created or crafted by men.What a silly God one would depend upon]
Just like yours, I agree
[Allah address himself to humans through his messenger Mohammad.Is’nt that enough of proof or religious fundie?]
It’s religious fundie, as we don’t know if Mohammad was saying the truth, if it was real or part of his imagination.
[I don’t thing a King would go through that rigorous details as in the Qoran to address his subjects]
Was Mohammad a king before creating his religion? I didn’t knew that. Anyway, kings of all historical periods have written -or ordered to write- lots of rubbish.
[We have been so much indulge in a heated argument Francesc.Let me tell you, truth will always resurface]
I agree, the problem here is who has the truth? Me, you or christians?
[They will be surrounded by forever young ‘Bidadari” or beautiful young women]
I always have asked myself if those “Bidadari” were humans, with free will, or not. Can they choose his partner? What happens with your wife when she dies, how is her heaven?
have a nice weekend and see you on monday!
Thanks for this website. I view many of these blogs and wanted to submit my blog to you for consideration. Any comments to help improve it would be appreciated. Thanks.
Dear Francesc,
I cannot answere all your comments in one shot,now I’am busy doing office work.I will answere them gradually when time permits.
[?? You may want to try other positions than the classic one. Only suggesting, you can do with
your sexual life wathever you want.]
You are not answering my question.You are escaping from it.You are giving a bullshit answere.
The point that I want to imply is why the ape & other animals does’nt know how to fuck their mate front to front
like their’ what you imply as their ape predecessor(HUMAN).’
You know why?Thats what I say animals will always be animals,their behaviour are different from humans.
No matter how your master(Charles Darwin) twisted it,there will always be contradictions.
[Our feets evolved to do more easy the bipedal locomotion.]
Other animals including the ape have exercise bipedal locomotion long time ago,then
what does it have to do with the shortening of the human toe compared with the ape.
Evolution seems to have choose to maintain the apes finger length & shortened its toe?
Other animals have existed much as the same time as the ape,why don’t they evolve as drastic as the ape,
as they become human?
Animals are always animals but humans are not animals.God created Adam in its finest form,with all the beauties,in fact one of God’s most wondrous creations, even more honorable than his angels,not like the one with the hairy coat and scratching its body most of the time.
All the viewers out there, you have witnessed the lie the Atheists try to inflick upon you all.
Francesc,
Today I can only answer the other part of your queries,the rest God willing I’ll try to finish it off some other time.
{[Have you or anybody ever wonder or think how they came about to be alive?]
Part of it is called “abiogenesys”. It’s still far from being the final answer, but science is working on finding it.}
Abiogenesis, or origin of life, is just the study of how life on Earth could have arisen from inanimate matter.
And they won’t find the answer they are trying to work out “lets say give them a billion years”than
accepting the answer that God had laid down.
You can borrow any word from abiogenesys to aborigenys or whatsoever,but the bottomline it will
still poses the ultimate question,who gave every living creature ‘LIFE’,whether it’s a microbe,a micro-organism,
a germ, a bacteria,a virus or any living things from the smallest to the biggest & that includes the angels & the Satans.
The answere is God.God gave them life when he puts the “Roh” into every dead body.And you will even wonder to
know that in every, yes every living soul there is a ‘being’ that is always on guard to that living soul.That
being is Gods angels.So be aware, someone is eyeing on you.
[Can your God just pop itself? Who created your God? I suppose your answer is that God existed always.
My answer is the universe existed “always” in some form.
Or should I pray GGod, who created God? Because anything come from nothing, ya know.]
Oh my…Ahh…That is difficult #@*!….No….just kidding.The answer is very simple Francesc.
That’s the speciality of God.
I think I have told you a few times and I bet you still remember that
“God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of. God is different from everything or anything.”
So you cannot compare the existence of God with the existence of other things.God exists before the existence
of the Universe or anything else.And the Universe will not existed ‘always’.It has a beginning & it will have its end.
The beginning of the Universe is when God builds it and the end of the
Universe is the ‘Kiamath’ where everything will be destroyed and that includes his angels except Allah.Allah existed on his own.
Theres no beginning & no end to Allah’s existence.Now its difficult…..ain’t it.Gods different from everything &
anything.I’ve said it earlier Francesc.You can’t imagine it…..
[I agree, the problem here is who has the truth? Me, you or christians?]
If you agree,neither you nor the Christians have the absolute truth.
Only God has the truth.And I am with God.And to know what is truth is for sure truth
will not contradict.
[My answer is the universe existed “always” in some form.]
There again you can’t answer in what form it existed.Humans are very weak in every aspects
compared to God.They cannot grasp let say a minute fraction of Gods knowledge.Thats why God
told them as in the Qoran.
[Solomon:2 vs Francesc:nil (just for humour)]
Lol, that’s your opinion, I don’t agree.
Ahh…I don’t have to comment on this.
[They will be surrounded by forever young ‘Bidadari” or beautiful young women]
I always have asked myself if those “Bidadari” were humans, with free will, or not. Can they choose his partner?
What happens with your wife when she dies, how is her heaven?
In heavens each man is granted with 72 bidadari’s.Not to say the bidadari’s can chose their partner,every bidadari
will be full of love to this one man.And the man can choose which bidadari he wants to be with(I will choose all at one time)
What will happen to our wife or wives?Women may happen to have more than one husband at the same or different time on earth.
If she is destined to heaven she will choose only one of their best husband to be with.
Men also may have happen to have more than one wife on earth.In heaven he can be with any of their wives whom
chooses to be with him plus the bidadari’s.And also sshh…let me whisper..in heaven men have the sex drive equivalet
to 70 normal men on earth..sshh..
While bidadari are women God creates specially for men in heaven & of course they should be human.
And before you ask,all that I have told you is Prophet Mohammads words,not mine.
Francesc I think all this while you have been turning & twisting around with your views and questions
hoping to find loopholes or contradictions in my(let say it God’s) views.I bet you can find any.You
are just wasting your time & others.But if you did’nt know or want to know or did’nt know yet its ok.
Get back to truth Francesc,to God’s path.Anyway we are all humans,brothers.
I can’t bear to know any of our brothers burned in hell.You know what is hell Francesc?It is ‘Fire’ which is very Hot.
But if you still deny, then it’s true what God says “And they will produce offsprings which will become defiant & even more infidel”
I would like to correct this,
Women may happen to have more than one husband at the same or different time on earth.
TO
Women may happen to have more than one husband at different time on earth.
“The beginning of the Universe is when God builds it and the end of the
Universe is the ‘Kiamath’ where everything will be destroyed and that includes his angels except Allah.”
Prove it.
I don’t have all the answers because I don’t make up the answers, unlike Mohammad -and a lot of other “prophets” before him.
“If she is destined to heaven she will choose only one of their best husband to be with.
Men also may have happen to have more than one wife on earth.In heaven he can be with any of their wives whom
chooses to be with him plus the bidadari’s.”
It’s not very symmetric, is it? Bidadari’s are human, but they are created in heaven? They choose, but they will always choose you? they seems more like robots to me.
“let me whisper..in heaven men have the sex drive equivalet
to 70 normal men on earth”
Do you have problems with your sex drive?
Good News for you my friend.
ALMIGHTY GOD LOVES YOU with an EVERLASTING, UNFAILING AND UNCONDITIONALLY COMMITTED LOVE FOR YOU. There is only one such God (Just One True Living God over and above all). Around 2000 years ago this God became a man. His name is Jesus. He is also called Christ which means he freely gives you never ending life and makes you part of his body if you believe in him. He also says that a person who believes in him will not be suffer any condemnation. Everyone who believes in God Jesus is eternally safe and absolutely secure as part of his own body. His/Her destiny is changed forever; He/She passes from death to life irrevocably, unchangeably, eternally. Nothing present or things to come will separate the person from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our God, the moment He/She believes in Christ for this everlasting life. This is the promise of God Jesus, for he says ‘whosoever believes in me shall never perish, but have everlasting life’. ‘Believing in Jesus’ MEANS ‘Believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God’. Will you believe in Jesus alone for this everlasting life and thus escape this impeding doom?
What is the Gospel (Good News, Objectively factual, a real event 2000 years ago)?
This very same Jesus who is Christ, the Son of God, the savior of the world, saved us (the world/human race) by dying on the cross for our sins, he was buried, and he rose again from the dead on the third day, and seen of six groups of people and individuals. (500 people at one time, most of whom were alive when 1 Corinthians 15’s gospel reminder was written.).
What does it mean?
2 Corinthians 5: 19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation.
Which means: God, in Christ, was reconciling (receiving back into favor) the entire world (the entire human race) by not imputing (not counting our sins unto us). To whom did he count our sins to? On Christ, The Lamb of God, His Own Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who died on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, around 30 AD. This is the only message of reconciliation. This is God’s doing. He alone did all to save us. He saved us, yes all of us. Our Salvation is a done thing. Jesus actually, really, factually saved us, for he said on the cross, ‘IT IS FINISHED’. He in fact saved us, and made us heirs to eternal life. Our salvation is an accomplished fact already. He saved us so that now we can freely (without any cost to us) enter heaven. This free gift is on us, upon us, for us, to us right now. So that without fear of death WE can freely (without any cost to us, but at the cost of the death of Son of God) joyfully enter heaven. Jesus has perfected us by the sacrifice of his physical body through death, for 2000 years ago, the Human Race has been made Holy through the sacrifice of the Body of JESUS CHRIST once for all.
Romans 3: 23, 24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrate his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:18 Yes, Adam’s one sin resulted in condemnation upon everyone, even so through one act of righteousness (Jesus’ death) there resulted justification of life upon everyone.
Jesus did all to save us from his Father’s just wrath/anger against our sin. He did it all; our salvation is an accomplished fact. Nothing can be added or removed from it. It is over, 2000 years ago. Because God the Father loved us he did this for us. He is also just and holy and he has to punish our sin, so he sent his Son Jesus, in his love for us, to take our place and He punished Jesus for us. Thus because of Jesus’ Grace (he willingly became one of us, and died for us), and his righteousness (sinlessness/perfection), and because of God the Father’s Grace, we are saved certainly, actually, really, factually, absolutely, infinitely, irrevocably, unchangeable, perfectly, completely, and for all eternity. JESUS HAS DONE ALL FOR OUR SALVATION AND HE HAS BECOME FOR US OUR ALL BEFORE GOD. Because Jesus is God in flesh he can do this for you and me (bear our sins, the wrath of God the Father, die for our sins, and rise again from the dead) He is the only Real God-Man, fully God and fully man, our last and final representative. Jesus did not sin, he died for our sins, rose again 3 days later on Resurrection Sunday around 2000 years ago (Luke 24:34 ‘The Lord is risen indeed’.) Jesus is our only hope. He is our only substitute in all of what God demands from us.
What does Apostle Paul, or Prophet David say?
Romans 4:6 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 4:8 blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin.”
Non Imputation of our Sin (Not Counting our sin against us, that is putting it into Christ Jesus’ account as he was hanging on the cross) in verses 7 and 8 describes/says/declares the imputation (Counting the Infinite worth of Christ Jesus into our account) of righteousness to us in verse 6.
So the Gospel means this: God the Father forgave us (took away our sins/separated our sins from us /carried it away from us and put it on the account/head of Jesus his son) and not only that, but also at the same time, God the Father declared us righteous by putting into our account the infinite righteousness of Christ. Then His Son died as our substitute, bearing our sins, thus sealing the transaction. This He did around 30 AD, 2000 years ago. In other words God, because he loved us, put to death his own precious Son Jesus because of our sins, and raised his Son Jesus from the dead because we have been justified (Perfected: Forgiven, Not-guilty of any sin, Reconciled to God, and counted infinitely righteous, and thus having full rights and privileges of entering into heaven).
Further References (These references can be found in the bible)
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world. 1 John 2:2: He himself is the atoning sacrifice (turning away God’s wrath) for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world 2 Corinthians 5:19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. 5:20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!” 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God. Hebrews 4:14 Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. 4:15 For we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin. 4:16 Therefore let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace whenever we need help John 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. Colossians 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
God placed the blame for everyone’s (the world/entire human race) sins on Jesus who suffered and died for them. God gave to these same sinners the credit for Jesus’ holiness and righteousness. Jesus took the blame for what we did wrong, and God gave us the credit for what Jesus did right. Jesus is our all; all of what He is, and what He did, is for us. It is not what you do or not do, BUT what Jesus is and did that saved us. This Salvation is all of Grace (Not what we do or don’t do, but what God IS and what HE DID that saved us). Now, my friend, you do not earn or work for this gift; All of what Jesus is and what Jesus did is God’s FREE GIFT upon you. This is the Gospel/Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 1: The Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes (the Gospel). John 1: To all who RECEIVED/ACCEPTED JESUS (who BELIEVE IN HIM (who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God)), he gave the right to become children of God. Rev 22:7: Jesus said, ‘Behold, I come quickly.’ Jesus says that He is the Christ, the Son of God. He gives everlasting life, and the Holy Spirit to all who believe His statement that He is the Christ, the Son of God. (John 11:25-27, & 20:31)
Good News for you my friend.
ALMIGHTY GOD LOVES YOU with an EVERLASTING, UNFAILING AND UNCONDITIONALLY COMMITTED LOVE FOR YOU. There is only one such God (Just One True Living God over and above all). Around 2000 years ago this God became a man. His name is Jesus. He is also called Christ which means he freely gives you never ending life and makes you part of his body if you believe in him. He also says that a person who believes in him will not be suffer any condemnation. Everyone who believes in God Jesus is eternally safe and absolutely secure as part of his own body. His/Her destiny is changed forever; He/She passes from death to life irrevocably, unchangeably, eternally. Nothing present or things to come will separate the person from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our God, the moment He/She believes in Christ for this everlasting life. This is the promise of God Jesus, for he says ‘whosoever believes in me shall never perish, but have everlasting life’. ‘Believing in Jesus’ MEANS ‘Believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God’. Will you believe in Jesus alone for this everlasting life and thus escape this impeding doom?
What is the Gospel (Good News, Objectively factual, a real event 2000 years ago)?
This very same Jesus who is Christ, the Son of God, the savior of the world, saved us (the world/human race) by dying on the cross for our sins, he was buried, and he rose again from the dead on the third day, and seen of six groups of people and individuals. (500 people at one time, most of whom were alive when 1 Corinthians 15’s gospel reminder was written.).
What does it mean?
2 Corinthians 5: 19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation.
Which means: God, in Christ, was reconciling (receiving back into favor) the entire world (the entire human race) by not imputing (not counting our sins unto us). To whom did he count our sins to? On Christ, The Lamb of God, His Own Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who died on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, around 30 AD. This is the only message of reconciliation. This is God’s doing. He alone did all to save us. He saved us, yes all of us. Our Salvation is a done thing. Jesus actually, really, factually saved us, for he said on the cross, ‘IT IS FINISHED’. He in fact saved us, and made us heirs to eternal life. Our salvation is an accomplished fact already. He saved us so that now we can freely (without any cost to us) enter heaven. This free gift is on us, upon us, for us, to us right now. So that without fear of death WE can freely (without any cost to us, but at the cost of the death of Son of God) joyfully enter heaven. Jesus has perfected us by the sacrifice of his physical body through death, for 2000 years ago, the Human Race has been made Holy through the sacrifice of the Body of JESUS CHRIST once for all.
Romans 3: 23, 24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrate his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:18 Yes, Adam’s one sin resulted in condemnation upon everyone, even so through one act of righteousness (Jesus’ death) there resulted justification of life upon everyone.
Jesus did all to save us from his Father’s just wrath/anger against our sin. He did it all; our salvation is an accomplished fact. Nothing can be added or removed from it. It is over, 2000 years ago. Because God the Father loved us he did this for us. He is also just and holy and he has to punish our sin, so he sent his Son Jesus, in his love for us, to take our place and He punished Jesus for us. Thus because of Jesus’ Grace (he willingly became one of us, and died for us), and his righteousness (sinlessness/perfection), and because of God the Father’s Grace, we are saved certainly, actually, really, factually, absolutely, infinitely, irrevocably, unchangeably, perfectly, completely, and for all eternity. JESUS HAS DONE ALL FOR OUR SALVATION AND HE HAS BECOME FOR US OUR ALL BEFORE GOD. Because Jesus is God in flesh he can do this for you and me (bear our sins, the wrath of God the Father, die for our sins, and rise again from the dead) He is the only Real God-Man, fully God and fully man, our last and final representative. Jesus did not sin, he died for our sins, rose again 3 days later on Resurrection Sunday around 2000 years ago (Luke 24:34 ‘The Lord is risen indeed’.) Jesus is our only hope. He is our only substitute in all of what God demands from us.
What does Apostle Paul, or Prophet David say?
Romans 4:6 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 4:8 blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin.”
Non Imputation of our Sin (Not Counting our sin against us, that is putting it into Christ Jesus’ account as he was hanging on the cross) in verses 7 and 8 describes/says/declares the imputation (Counting the Infinite worth of Christ Jesus into our account) of righteousness to us in verse 6.
So the Gospel means this: God the Father forgave us (took away our sins/separated our sins from us /carried it away from us and put it on the account/head of Jesus his son) and not only that, but also at the same time, God the Father declared us righteous by putting into our account the infinite righteousness of Christ. Then His Son died as our substitute, bearing our sins, thus sealing the transaction. This He did around 30 AD, 2000 years ago. In other words God, because he loved us, put to death his own precious Son Jesus because of our sins, and raised his Son Jesus from the dead because we have been justified (Perfected: Forgiven, Not-guilty of any sin, Reconciled to God, and counted infinitely righteous, and thus having full rights and privileges of entering into heaven).
Further References (These references can be found in the bible)
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world. 1 John 2:2: He himself is the atoning sacrifice (turning away God’s wrath) for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world 2 Corinthians 5:19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. 5:20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!” 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God. Hebrews 4:14 Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. 4:15 For we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin. 4:16 Therefore let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace whenever we need help John 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. Colossians 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
God placed the blame for everyone’s (the world/entire human race) sins on Jesus who suffered and died for them. God gave to these same sinners the credit for Jesus’ holiness and righteousness. Jesus took the blame for what we did wrong, and God gave us the credit for what Jesus did right. Jesus is our all; all of what He is, and what He did, is for us. It is not what you do or not do, BUT what Jesus is and did that saved us. This Salvation is all of Grace (Not what we do or don’t do, but what God IS and what HE DID that saved us). Now, my friend, you do not earn or work for this gift; All of what Jesus is and what Jesus did is God’s FREE GIFT upon you. This is the Gospel/Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 1: The Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes (the Gospel). John 1: To all who RECEIVED/ACCEPTED JESUS (who BELIEVE IN HIM (who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God)), he gave the right to become children of God. Rev 22:7: Jesus said, ‘Behold, I come quickly.’ Jesus says that He is the Christ, the Son of God. He gives everlasting life, and the Holy Spirit to all who believe His statement that He is the Christ, the Son of God. (John 11:25-27, & 20:31)
Dear Prave,
What are you mumbling about on your June 10 comments.If youre talking to me than youre
talking to the wrong person.It’s fortunate that you don’t agree with the Christians teachings coz some parts of the teachings is from God almighty but most parts have been twisted by the Christian scholars.Jesus is not God or son of God.Jesus is a man, a human who agree there is only one God that is Allah the Almighty.All those who says Allah have a son will be burned in hell,that includes the Christian.Its fortunate that you did’nt believe them but its still unfortunate if you did’nt believe there is God.Nobody can forgive ones sins except only God.
Prave,
I bet you still have doubts & confusion in your mind regarding religion & that ‘no god’ stuffs.That’s a good sign,it means you haven’nt found the truth yet.Search for truth,don’t run from it.It’s not easy but it’s not too hard.One things for sure truth does not contradict.Not contradict with logic or science or your heart or proofs or whatsoever. Search for it.The clue is in the holy Qoran.
Francesc,
Its been quite a while I did’nt visit this site, I stumble upon your June 15 comments.Heres what I have to say.
I don’t have to prove when Kiamath or the end of this world will happen.You yourself can prove it if youre still alive when the time comes..Kah …kah…kah….excuse me…
No…no…sorry…The beginning or the end of the world are all depicted by God Almighty in the Qoran.But only God knows when is its exact time..(hopefully not too near).
[I don’t have all the answers because I don’t make up the answers, unlike Mohammad -and a lot of other “prophets” before him.]
Mohammad or other prophets did’nt made up the answers.Its God who gave all the answers.Indeed we all, you or me or everybody does not have all the answers to everything because we all are weak, we know only a dust fraction of Gods knowledge, that’s why we need assistance, guidance,directions from God who knew everything or anything.
Its very symmetric Francesc..Its no new stuffs bidadari is human & created in heavens.The first human,Adam is created in heaven.All humans should be in heaven at the first place.Thats the original place for humans Francesc.It’s the SATAN who have tricked human & made them being thrown out from heaven.SATAN is very jealous of the attention God gave to human.As for bidadari they will always choose you because God made them specially for you.For those who only claim Allah as God,who perform prayers,who is kind,patient,give asistence to the needy and do many other good deeds.The bidadaris are not like robots in physique or behaviour.They are real beautiful womens who have not been touched by other men or even the ‘Jinh’(Gods creature made from fire)
They the bidadari’s is impatient(now at real time) to be with their men & will be very jealous or uncomfortable if your wife (on earth) mistreat you.Does that soothes you Francesc.In fact every truth will soothes the heart.
If you doubt my sex drive why don’t you call some of your female friends to give it a try….
no…no…just joking…we don’t fornicate even if its free.
Three reasons why not to be a Christian anyway. Watch I Dare You.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS36X7aujzI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mon5Ive7FmE
Just passing through, Bye bye from Drunken Atheist.
My favorite blog to read about religion and science is:
Irtiqa (http://sciencereligionnews.blogspot.com/)
It’s maintained by Mr Salman Hameed. We might not call it an athiest blog, but we can definitely call it a skeptic blog, in my opinion.
Peace
Man, Inherently Human Blog has a long way to go to even touch up on that list. http://blog.atheist-r-evolution.com
http://www.onegoodmove.org
What if there was God?? What if after we die, there he is, God.. Shouldn’t that be a problem to atheist?? Even if God doesn’t exist, nobody lost anything by believing in him.. All his messages to humans were to improve their lives and help them live in this world with a certain harmony.. Think of Him as someone who asked u to be good and told u that u’ll meet again then left u alone to see whether u practice this advice.. We will meet again.. Every test must be graded.. and life is a test… I so do respect catholics and muslims and everyone who believes in god.. and i do respect atheists as i believe they have a point, but should have a stronger statement for proving that point of view.. Im sorry if i upset anyone but we should all accept each others opinions..
Regards,
Mohamad Abdel Razzak
Which god?
Cheers for the rec, Stephen. :-)
Stephen, the humility and humor in this is outstanding. I’ll look at your blog – can you recommend other Christian blogs that are interested in genuine dialog? I’d like to put a list together on my site.
No – I agree with elemenope. What we have is a culture war, which is escalating, between Christians and Atheists. You won’t convince a Christian that their beliefs are wrong by telling them that they are stupid and silly (they don’t think so) or that the Church history is an abomination (everybody makes mistakes.) And – as we all know – convincing a critical majority of Christians to adopt a more inclusive paradigm is fundamental for the betterment of society. What skeptics have on their side (sometimes) is a little bit more understanding and wisdom, which should let them see how important being sympathetic to Christian is for actual dialogue; but what is too often produced is an angry tirade, which makes them (us?) no better than fundamentalists ourselves.
Fantastic… This is a brilliant model for the process of de-conversion.
Oh…… the infamous Lee Strobel. His book made me wretchedly mad. He interviews (only) Christian scholars, and then writes how astounded he is by the amazing evidence. Like page 91 – talking about a statement of Jesus, whether or not it is ‘historical’:
“That is stunning corroboration for the most important assertion by the most influential individual who has ever lived.” There’s an almost laughable bias here; but it’s not funny because tens of thousands of otherwise intelligent people have been drawn in by this farce.
On a cosmological level: I have no doubt that you experience God. I happen to believe that the universe responds to our expectations so strongly that we can experience what we believe in (and, it is easy to use that experience as proof…even though, given this theory of the universe, it is not.) Good luck in your quest!
There is nothing unreasonable about the ethics of Jesus. However – the ‘we are born in sin and require the sacrifice of Jesus (by accepting him into our hearts) or else we are going to Hell, is flawed on so many levels its difficult to address. Living in Taiwan, however, and noting how roughly 95% of Taiwanese are not Christian and yet arguably ethically superior to westerners… I have a serious problem with the belief that they are going to Hell – and this is only out of the Graciousness of God – God’s ‘gift’ to humanity.
“I have a serious problem with the belief that they are going to Hell – and this is only out of the Graciousness of God – God’s ‘gift’ to humanity.”
Man, can I exchange that ‘gift’ for a PS3?
hey derek
Jesus’ ethics are very very unreasonable. No person is capable of fulfilling them (Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect). A command as defined in the OT, when disobeyed, received its due. NT says the wages of sin is death (NOT TORTURE – more at tentmaker dot ORG on first 400 years of Christian church history- Check Universalism – the prevailing doctrine of the early christian Church)
Jesus paid that price ( you and i would die – NOT GOING TO HELL AND BEING TORTURED BY GOD).
Jesus the second adam rose from the dead.
at last at the end of ages God will be all in all : 1 Corinthians 15:34.
So why this misery of life, with this overall madness of wars and famines and the banality of evil? – ask God- he is the author of all. He has created evil and he has done all (check the lake of fire series at Ray L Smith online)
does that reduce yours and mine anguish and pain seeing the evil . No.
Roger,
God does not simply throw his creations to hell.He throws them to hell for those who find other God’s they create themselves rather than only him,those who create mischiefs,those who are cruel to others,those who sway others from the true path.In fact he promises good afterlife & Heavens to those who follow his path.He just want some recognition & credit for his graciousness,thats all,but most humans are ungratefull for what God have given them.Don,t make a joke out of him.
Roger,
The only exchange or gift you will get is the burning chain from Hell round your neck!
Solomon
then you are going to hell too
for all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God…(romans 3:23).
BUT that’s NOT the ONLY news…The Good news immediately follows it…and are Justified freely by his grace…(romans 3:24) (Old Lutheran teaching: Objective Universal Justification…but the lutharans Logically would not go further…Universal Salvation is the logical end to universal justification (already happed 2000 years ago at the cross) )
so you, me and all have been saved so that God will be all in all.
Romans 3 21-26 : But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
But this does not help my sincere, intelligent, full of integrity atheistic friends who all have a very valid set of arguments – both sound and valid (Given the set of premises they hold). But as Kurt Godel said in his second incompleteness theorem: For any formal effectively generated theory T including basic arithmetical truths and also certain truths about formal provability, T includes a statement of its own consistency if and only if T is inconsistent.
So even if my atheistic friends logically would develop a rigorous formal system (with symbols and axioms) they can come up with false statements. (thats how i think…if i am mistaken or someone is a better mathematician please correct me in the implication of Godels second theorem. )
So we are back to the beginning: either we become epicureans like kirk or stoic like Spock……
Please pardon my ramblings…But this gives me the greatest Joy: all my atheistic friends on this website will be with me in heaven because of what Christ has done for us.
1 Corinthians chapter 13: 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
So all our limited knowledge and understanding will one day pass away and we all will be one. Till that day occurs let us love one and another and make this world a better place little by little. Let us not fight, but show compassion. Let us not be neither a Christian fundamentalist NOR a atheistic fundamentalist. Both are not nice to be around with.
Dear Prave,
I will come to you later.Today is weekend at the office and its almost time to go home.I wrote blogs only at office.Hope to reply in 2 days later.
Why suddenly everybody is so quiet….
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