Here is Roy Zimmerman singing a silly song about Ted Haggard:
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Snorting meth off a male hooker’s ass is so NOT gay.
Question UNrelated to this entry:
Why is it that many people commenting on this blog and the author, Daniel, see it so necessary to disprove a God who doesn’t exist?
To put it another way, it seems like an incredible waste of time to spend so much of it “debunking” what you don’t believe exists in the first place.
To put it another way, are you just angry with your religious affiliations from the past?
To put it another way, why are few of you interested in speaking with someone who can creatively and articulately explain a Christian’s beliefs? Not the fundamental idiots you blog about, but a REAL person. Just curious.
To put it another way, I don’t believe in time travel but I see plenty of “intelligent” people on TV talking about it. Even some folks that Daniel Florien praises on this blog. These people throw out THEORY after theory about time travel. They say it’s “only a matter of time” (no pun intended). They say that the “laws of physics” could be bent if we just had the “technology”.
My point is, I don’t spend all day blogging about time travel, being sarcastic about time travel, ripping the people who believe in time travel, and trying to disprove something I don’t believe exists in the first place.
So Why? I’m just curious. Really.
Damn that apostrophe virus!
Nope has a lot of answer for.
“Why is it that many people commenting on this blog and the author, Daniel, see it so necessary to disprove a God who doesn’t exist?”
No one is trying to disprove god. They are merely pointing out how ridiculous the idea is.
“To put it another way, it seems like an incredible waste of time to spend so much of it “debunking” what you don’t believe exists in the first place.”
Nope, most of the ‘debunking’ that goes on is the silly ideas perpetuated by religious belief. We know god doesn’t exist, but religions claim he does exist, and they claim he is composed of X, Y, and Z attributes (XYZ will change depending on the religion). It’s pretty easy to point out that XYZ are often refuted by the very same holy books the religions cling to, and by the behavior of their prophets.
“To put it another way, are you just angry with your religious affiliations from the past?”
I won’t speak for anyone else, but in my case it was a gigantic waste of time that I wish I had back.
“To put it another way, why are few of you interested in speaking with someone who can creatively and articulately explain a Christian’s beliefs? Not the fundamental idiots you blog about, but a REAL person. Just curious.”
Because I was one, and you have nothing to say to me that I haven’t already been through. Why do I care what you think about your particular vision of the mythical deity?
“To put it another way, I don’t believe in time travel but I see plenty of “intelligent” people on TV talking about it. Even some folks that Daniel Florien praises on this blog. These people throw out THEORY after theory about time travel. They say it’s “only a matter of time” (no pun intended). They say that the “laws of physics” could be bent if we just had the “technology”.
My point is, I don’t spend all day blogging about time travel, being sarcastic about time travel, ripping the people who believe in time travel, and trying to disprove something I don’t believe exists in the first place.”
If 90% of people on earth believed in time travel, if nations tried to enforce laws that made everyone believe in it, or act as if they did, if people wanted your children to be forced to read pro-time travel dogma, if professing to believe in time travel were a de facto requirement for public office, I can bet you’d spend some time arguing against it.
“So Why? I’m just curious. Really.”
Mostly just to piss you off. Really.
I’m seconding Daniel and Ty. Though I’ll give you a “nice try” on the “if you really didn’t believe in it, you wouldn’t talk about it at all” attempt.
as for Ted Haggard, wanting to have sex with members of the same sex is not the definition of gay. um, really it’s not. when i get around to redefining “gay”, I’ll tell you what it is.
If 90% of people on earth believed in time travel, if nations tried to enforce laws that made everyone believe in it, or act as if they did, if people wanted your children to be forced to read pro-time travel dogma, if professing to believe in time travel were a de facto requirement for public office, I can bet you’d spend some time arguing against it.
Word.
Stephen Webb:
It seems like an incredible waste of time to ask such a question on a blog like this: the people who are reading it must have some interest in the topic in the first place. Except, maybe, for the godbots.
OT, but I had a brief look at your blog and that was not an incredibly sensible use of my time, either.
Stephen Webb:
Why is it that many people commenting on this blog and the author, Daniel, see it so necessary to disprove a God who doesn’t exist?
Sherman [reporter]: “Certainly you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?”
HW Bush [on campaign trail before being elected president]: “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”
If you refuse to believe in time travel, unlike Christianity, your not condemmed to an eternity of pain and suffering
We are all travelling through time right now. At exactly one hour-per-hour. What’s not to believe in?
I would like to travel back in time though, and Not listen to the Zimmermann song before I went to bed last night. Damned earworm kept me awake for hours.
Why? To fight back.
I’ve suffered from religious beliefs most of my life and I’m not even a Christian.
When I was 8 years old, our schools religion teacher shouted at me that “If you don’t believe in God, you will go to hell!” To a kid that age, I think it’s pretty harsh.
When I was 9 years old, all of my friends went to girl scouting. So, of course I wanted too. I never knew it was supported by religious means, no-one never told me. But it was fun, hanging out with friends. When it was time to give out the pledge of scouting, they informed me that I must say “In god I believe” at some point. I was perplexed. I never had and surely would not in the future. And with the scout leader we had the longest and most furiating conversation. ” I don’t believe in any god.” – “Well, just think of it as the source of your beliefs.” “I don’t have one, I believe in myself and I certainly won’t announce myself a god.” And this continued for a long time.
When it finally came to the pledge, I said nothing at the part. Easy problem solving.
And that’s just the start. I’ve been called out names, been spit at and laughed on it just because of being a non-believer.
It’s nice to read about people’s thoughts on the same side.
I found this little nugget from Stephen Webb’s blog:
“Hey Christians and non-thinkers…”
In Stephen’s world anyone who is not a Christian doesn’t think. How illogical and strangely ironic is that statement?
This brought on nostalgia for how I first learned of Ted Haggard:
“Meth and Man Ass”.
Here are two links, for your reading and listening pleasure.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-hipp/meth-and-man-ass_b_33326.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MDQkXodLyY
I never tire of watching this.
News Flash!
(for those newly acquainted with the amazing Roy Zimmerman)
His introduction to his song about abstinence training begins with this statement:
“In the schools, now, they’re teaching this abstinence-only sex education. Which is a little like saying ‘just-hold-it potty training’.”
Priceless!
Here’s a question for you: If MLKJ didn’t believe that black people were inferior to white people, why did he spend so much time trying to prove it?
Although Christians do not necessarily believe that atheists & agnostics are inferior, many of them do believe that they are “sinful” or “have turned away from God” and “are destined for hell”. In extreme cases, this makes atheists/agnostics completely beneath Christian contempt, as fundamentalist teaching forbids association with sinners except for conversion purposes and where unavoidable. Someone who leaves the fold – especially for an atheistic or agnostic viewpoint – is filed into the same category. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard a sigh-ridden tale of a Christian who “went out into the world”, the unspoken punchline being that they were almost definitely going to be condemned for it.
Even in moderate Christianity, the fear of Hell is incredibly dangerous both inside and outside the community. Christians are frequently encouraged to give up what could have been happy, fulfilling secular lives and careers in favor of a church-approved job and spouse. The teachings of the Bible usually forbid them from ever leaving that spouse, no matter what the situation, which can and has resulted in terrible relationships. Christian children are frequently not given the tools they need to deal with the world as adults; rather than instructing their children in how to deal with certain situations, the parents will give them the simple instruction “don’t do it”. As a result, if/when faced with one of these scenarios, the child has only two choices: reject it completely, or dive in uneducated and suffer every possible consequence. Thanks to good old-fashioned free will and peer pressure, they will frequently do the latter. The two instances I can think of that best showcase this problem are abstinence-only sex education and the more fundamental practice of only marrying within the church – in the latter case, the young adult has no idea how to choose a good spouse outside the church, and will frequently marry the first decent-seeming guy who comes along – and then, according to tradition, is forced to remain married to him no matter what he turns out to be.
This sort of thing is dangerous enough when the Christians keep it to themselves, but for most groups it is not enough. In order to keep others from the fires of Hell, they will do everything in their power to recruit everyone they can into the fold, locking them into the same self-destructive cycle.
Now, if you read all of that (thank you very much if you did, by the way) can you honestly say that you don’t understand why we would want to disprove this kind of God?
Because…
1. It interests me.
2. It interests other people.
3. I went through experiences that give me some insight into religion and Christianity, and I want to make that available to others.
4. I think people get trapped in religion and cults, and I want to help them break out of a delusion.
5. I care about truth and I see this as furthering it.
6. Religion — especially when mixed with fundamentalism — can be harmful.
7. It’s a staple of our culture and often forced on others.
8. People often look down on others if they are atheists.
9. Did I say because it interests me? Really that’s reason enough for me. I enjoy it.
I’m sure there are other reasons, but that’s what I came up with in a few seconds.
Well why are you bothered if people wish to disprove something that you believe does exist?
So why did you bother posting here — are you just angry with your non-religious beliefs from the past?
Are you not interested in understanding what non-believers actaully think instead of claiming that “you just owned them” the then not answering any questions put to you?
My point is what point are you trying to make posting here? I’m just curious. Really.
I know, and have spoken to, many people who can clearly explain what they, as a Christian, believe. I’m married to such a person, in fact. None of them are arrogant enough to think that they can explain what every Christian believes. Some of them think that people with other beliefs (for example, fundamentalists, or more liberal Christians, or Presbyterians) are somehow “less” Christian than they are, but they can rarely provide a reason for this beyond that they know that their belief is the correct one, and everyone else is somehow deluded.
I speak with fundamentalist Southern Baptists who believe that the world is literally 6,000 years old and that being gay is the worst sin anyone could ever commit, and I speak with modernist Anglicans who believe that Jesus was a guy who popularised a decent philosophy, but don’t believe that he was in any way divine. They agree on very little about what it means to be a Christian, and I imagine that you don’t agree with either of them. I speak with John C who thinks that the Bible is written in a code that can only be understood by deciding ahead of time what you’re going to get out of it. I count Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, Baha’i, Quakers and Unitarians amongst my friends, and I have long discussions with them about their faith and their beliefs.
Why do you believe that your viewpoint of Christianity is more valid than theirs? Can you add anything new or interesting to the discussion? Why do you think that people aren’t interested in talking about this, just because they stop being interested when you start claiming that your beliefs are entirely representative of Christianity?
another reason to write about a god I don’t believe in to add to the many already given is that religion caused a lot of hurt in my life. Writing about it for me is therapeutic. It also makes me realize that I am far from alone, when I felt alone for so long.
My point is, I don’t spend all day blogging about time travel, being sarcastic about time travel, ripping the people who believe in time travel, and trying to disprove something I don’t believe exists in the first place.
I imagine that you’ve never met two people who were ready to kill each other over time travel. Time travel theories don’t have much effect on the laws that say who you can love or what you are allowed to eat and say. You don’t see many people giving over some of their lives and a lot of their money to time travel as a matter of course. Most people are unwilling to lie in service to time travel theories. Time travel does not move people to fanatical devotion (Lost episodes aside).
Have you ever made any enemies or lost any friends to time travel?
———–
You know what it occurs to me we could use? A religion that involves time travel. That would be kinda neat. I’m sure one of the wayward heretical sects of the Flying Spaghetti Monster could handle this for us.
Duh….
Because people aren’t trying to force colleges and textbook editors to eliminate teaching evolution and substitute creationism as “science” because they believe in time travel.
We don’t get screaming, hate-filled, vicious posts about “you atheists” form people who believe in time travel.
We don’t get people trying to punish women for abortions – while ignoring the men who impregnated them – and all the while refusing to help provide the sex education, vasectomies, and safe, available, inexpensive, effective contraception that would prevent the need for abortions because they believe time travel forbids it.
We don’t get hateful, punitive “TimeTravelians” not only wanting to punish (only) women, but also preaching that flodds, fires, and other natural disasters are “Time Travel’s punishment on an evil people for the sin of abortion”.
We don’t have believers in time travel discriminating against atheists holding public office. They couldn’t get away with doing that for skin color, but still have old laws for atheism. They are NOT doing it out of a belief in time travel.
We don’t have a women in miserable marriages because a bunch of people believe that a wife is subjugated to the husband – at least not a bunch of people who believe in time travel.
DUH!
Because we don’t have people who formerly believed in time travel, or were brought up in it by their parents, who are emotionally scarred from a set of beliefs that was pathological, and harmful to their well-being.
Because eternal punishment as a psychological tactic to force people to conform to “moral” behavior, as defined by external authorities, after forcing on a newborn baby that it is born evil and needs this force, has never to my knowledge been done because of a belief in time travel.
Because societal rules, gossip, stigmatizing, ostracism, and forcing people to conform to one set of an institution’s rules, which sometimes were not even in the ancient text in which it believed, has not been done by any institution of time-travel.
DUH!
So much of the state, codified legal and societal rules are built into the laws still, and mal-affect people right now, in spite of a supposed difference between church and state. Don’t thinks so? Check out freedom of sexuality in some other countries, or other mores, or how weird they think Americans are. The things you ASSume are “normal” aren’t. They’re just what you, and church-influenced institutions, believe.
That’s not even counting the abovementioned mal-affected people: women in unhappy Christian marriages, women not free to plan their own reproductive choices without external choices forced on them, emotionally scarred people, uilt, fear, belief that a baby is born evil, hatred on the part of the believers trying to convert the nonbelievers and force their beliefs on everyone, etc..
None of this is done in the name of time travel.
DUH!
This doesn’t
No, you’re not.
If you were curious, you would come back and look for answers to the questions you asked.
Webb:
WELL?
I have sometimes objected to name-calling, but your hit-and-run, drive-by-shooting, post-and-disappear behavior is, to use a word I’m borrowing from Ty, chickenshit.
P.S.: I agreed with Ty calling that other guy (might not have been you) chickenshit. He was a flame-and-run poster, too.
No one here is obligated to “love the sinner”. (ha)
It’s calling out some demonstrable (not to mention despicable) behavior. Hmmm, might even be because some despicable person is doing it.
The reason atheists such as myself take the time to debunk christianity is because it is harmful. I has harmed me personally; it harms the earth; it harms relations among people. If you have read the bible, and if you know christians, you probably know what I’m talking about.
Thats a bit of a liberty, a stretch on your part there Winter. I have not declared all of scripture to be ‘code’ as you say.
I made a light-hearted reference to this and to knowing the Author’s character being helpful to accurately interpreting scripture and you run off with it. Out of a 1000 or so posts you elect to focus (solely) on that.
It’s EVERYWHERE!!!
Gay means happy!
Ted Haggard is not happy.
Thus, not gay.
….
;)
Do we know that he really wanted to have sex with men? What if he was being blackmailed into it? That would make him not-gay, right?
And besides, God has forgiven him, right? So clearly, being gay can’t be that bad. If you’re a famous Christian preacher with millions of congregants.
No, you’ve not declared all of it to be code, it’s true. Just any specific portion that you’ve been asked about.
And it is not “as I say”, but “as you say”; “code” is your word to describe the bible, a word that you’ve repeatedly used, and not something that I’m projecting onto you to ridicule your beliefs; I’m honestly trying to represent what you think in the very same terms that you use.
I have no idea how “light-hearted” you’re being, but it’s clearly been more than “a reference”; it’s a theme you frequently return to, so I assume it’s something you feel is important. And besides, it’s about the only thing you say that I can make sense of.
The code is this:
If you think it means something other than what John C thinks it means, then you’re reading it wrong.
It’s a pretty simple code, really.
You sure spend a lot of time immersed in thought and discussion about a God who you argue doesnt even exist Winter…I’m just about to label you a true seeker. We can mask the reasons, but down deep in our inner man we all want to know…Him.
I’m going to go away for a while (let the celebrations begin…lol) but will check in on my atheist friends from time to time.
As always…all the best.
JC
JC: I’m interested in why people believe things. But, really, it’s not like I spend every waking hour in these conversations; maybe I average a couple of hours every month. I spend more time talking about LOST, I imagine.
But yes; god (probably) does not exist, and I am almost entirely certain that I’ll never be a believer. And if I were to be converted, the odds of me believing what you believe are remote, so I’d still be going to hell anyway, right?
“Have you ever made any enemies or lost any friends to time travel?”
A cyborg was sent back from the future to kill my mother, once.
Yeah. What Ty said.
Yeah. What Ty said.
No, he’s clearly attaching two labels to the same group. He’s addressing people who are both “Christians” and “non-thinkers”.
Sad.
To some of us, it seems mutually exclusive that you can be both a thinker and a christian. This is because christianity defies reason, over and over again. One example, if you’re interested:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Yeah, Webb -
I think you’re lying about being “just curious”.
I’ve heard that before from Christians who really want to argue – or should I say I’ve heard it from both “agnostics and non-thinkers”?
Kinda like the beggar on the street asking me how I am – he’s really concerned for me and is curious – really!
Liar.
Read jabster’s questions again – since they’re your questions rephrased, if you were sincere about your questions being valid, then you would find his questions to be valid.
Then: answer them!
Or not, if you were pretending to be sincerely interested as an opening for derogating others’ beliefs, and were actually not curious and not sincere, really.
Stephen Webb:
WELL?
Speak, oh great white wonder.
More good answers for you, Stephen Webb.
Too bad Mr. “I’m just curious. Really.” is apparently never going to come back and read them.
AnonyMouse – excellent argument.