It does have the flaw of making the conclusions he draws seem more certain than they are, but it’s worth reading to get an overview of how human morality compares to that of other animals, and how it might have evolved.

I mean I agree we certainly share some traits, and behavoirs with non-human primates.

There is currently a raging debate in primatology over whether or not non-human primates engage in altruism.

But, I can’t think evolution alone can account for all morality

Skeptics often refer to this as the God of the Gaps argument.

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. So overwhelming that it is considered the Theory of Evolution like the Theory of Heliocentrism or the Theory of Gravity. That isn’t to say that there aren’t mysteries to yet be resolved. Related to moral issues for instance, along with the questions you raise one could ask how does murdering one’s own child or suicide harmonize with evo?

It might be helpful to think about evolutionary brain development. New species didn’t get brand new 2.0 brains. What we have in grey matter is the current complex resulting from 2 billion years of ad hoc development. Human brain function is extremely complex, even convoluted. As an example, we now know that when a person thinks about killing from a distance he/she uses a part of the brain that is focussed on rational decisions whereas when thinking about killing up close a different part of the brain is engaged, one that primes emotional reactions.

But, I can’t think evolution alone can account for all morality.

Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to say something like, ‘I personally don’t understand how evolution might account for all morality and am looking forward to further developments in the field and perhaps my intuition will be proven correct’? Otherwise you are faced with the daunting task of overturning or just rejecting established science, no?

I would like to recommend a book on neuroscience for laymen, ‘On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You’re Wrong’ by Robert A. Burton, M.D.

Moral behaviours tend to be pro-survival-of-the-species. For example: We tend to regard suicide as somewhere between amoral and immoral, but rarely moral.

Yet we all praise the soldiers who die so that a society can pursue its two-car-garge, two-point-four kids, and dog. We laud firepersons who die futilely trying to rescue old ladies who were probably corpses before the rescue effort began. Why? Because defending the tribe is a pro-survival behaviour.

Most real altruistic behaviour is behaviour that costs little or nothing to the individual. But there isn’t a lot of it about. If we consider tossing change to a street kid: Am I doing it to improve that kid’s odds of survival? No. I’m most likely doing it to assuage my own guilt. Not altruistic behaviour then.

But where does the guilt, the awareness, come from? From being able to think beyond my self and my immediate needs, being able to put myself in that kid’s shoes, and think “There but for the grace of chance go I.” And that has a strong evolutionary component–it’s part of the same mechanism that engages in those soldiers and those fire fighters.

Churches practice a lot of charity. They also engage a lot of guilt. It’s one of the things I feel churches do very well.

But we’re increasingly realizing as societies that we can take generous and altruistic action without religious or theistic motivation.

It may be that the theory of evolution can account for some morality. I mean I agree we certainly share some traits, and behavoirs with non-human primates.

But, I can’t think evolution alone can account for all morality. What can account for agage, self-less love, altruism that gives no survival benefit at all? To use an example that I’ve read,

What compels someone who can hardly swim, and who might die in the attempt to jump into a river to rescue a total stranger, or even an enemy?

What about the human motivation to perform small acts of conscience that no one else even knows about?

You have not even attempted to address the challenge that morality of whatever stripe emerges out of the process of evolution. Are you prepared to overturn ToE?

I didn’t do a “hit, and run” driveby. This was my first chance to get back to the computer, and spend more time since yesterday. I’ll try to respond. What does happens sometimes is I can actually lose track of the threads, and all the responses.

But, I’m not deliberately wanting to be disrespectful, or brush people off at all.

Claidheamh Mor, and Wintermute, apart from feeling that all humans have instrinsic value, and worth apart from value to the group, or performance, how can people be motivated to see everyone as part of the in group? Why shouldn’t people simply look to their own interest, or the interests of their clan, rather than to be truly altruistic.

And, if this life is all we have, and there’s no justice after death, what prevents someone from just as easily thinking, “I’m going to get mine no matter what.” Who cares about anyone else?

Ok, if anything I”ve said seems offensive, tell me about it, and I’ll do my best to hear you out, and try to understand.

I want to add that I really do feel badly that so many here do have such a low opinion of the Christian faith, and of Christians in general. The church has screwed up pretty badly, and let alot of good people down.

http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/03/02/cyclical-time-and-the-historical-jesus/#comment-19024

Underneath Grace’s “:)” are coming to the wrong site for whining:

But, what’s up with always presenting people of faith, and Christianity in the worse possible light? This is how it feels to me anyway when I read some of these deconversion type blogs.

muddled thinking based on assumptions of what atheism is and isn’t, upon which are based ridiculous, insulting, negating assumptions about human worth:

I think that humanitarianism, feeling that human beings are of priceless, intrinsic worth no matter what, can’t actually come from atheism alone as a philosophical base. I think it comes inspite of it, from somewhere else.

and, of course, the hit-and-run drive-bys when it’s someone else’s turn to ask her questions and get answers.

Thanks.