Even secular folks can join Christians in celebrating the excruciating death of their God on a cross today. If he didn’t die, would we be getting all this awesome candy? I’m not so sure.
So thanks, Jesus! Om nom nom.
(via)
Reasonable Thoughts on Religion, Science, Skepticism, and Atheism
795 Comments
Of course we would get candy, because Easter is simply the Roman spring Festival!
Xtians don’t know when Christ was actually crucified, so they conveniently choose the same week as the Roman celebrations of the Goddess Flora because Christ rose being dead like her flowers do.
(Never mind the that old testament commanded them not to take traditions from other cultures.)
this gave me quite the chuckle this morning.. reminds me of the eddie izzard skit about easter..on the dress to kill show
The pagans had big festivals
on Easter and Christmas.
Christians had big festivals
at Easter and Christmas.
Jesus died on one and was born
on the other. Hm-hm-hm-hmm?
Cos…Jesus I do think did exist.
He was a guy
who had interesting ideas
in the Gandhi area, the Nelson
Mandela area – relaxed and groovy.
The Romans thought,
“Relaxed and groovy? No
So they murdered him.
Kids eat chocolate eggs
because the color of the chocolate
and the color of
the wood on the cross…
Well, you tell me.
It’s got nothing to do with it,
has it?
People are going, “Remember kids,
Jesus died for your sins.”
“Yeah, I know, it’s great.”
“No, it’s bad.”
“It’s bad. lt’s terrible”
“Whatever you want.
Just keep giving me these eggs.”
And the bunny rabbits, where do
they come into the Crucifixion?
There were no rabbits going,
“You putting crosses in our warrens?
“We live below this hill, all right?”
Bunny rabbits are for shagging,
eggs are for fertility.
It’s the spring festival.
It should also be submitted to: http://failblog.org/
Me, I think we’d be nomming chocolate for the Equinox, which was weeks ago. Damn you Jesus! Postponing my chocolate!
Isn’t it obvious what Jesus and rabbits have to do with each other? No animal gets nailed more than a rabbit…
Q: What were Jesus’ last words?
A: Ow. Ow. Ow.
I can haz candee? Om nom nom nom!
Why don’t they just make chocolate Jesus? We could bite the ears off first, just like chocolate bunnies.
Cadbury Mini Eggs are like Platonic (perfect, ideal) M&Ms.
Quote:
Xtians don’t know when Christ was actually crucified, so they conveniently choose the same week as the Roman celebrations of the Goddess Flora because Christ rose being dead like her flowers do.
J. Allen, don’t you know Jesus entered Jerusalem to celebrate Passover. The Passover meal was the Last Supper. The Bible speaks, therefore, specifically about when Jesus died, and is not just the Roman ‘Spring Festival’. You want to know why Easter jumps around the calender like an ADD sufferer with a caffeine addiction? It’s cause it’s based on the Jewish calender, and Passover occurs during the first week after the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox.
Everyone knows that Easter is when the Easter Bunny Jesus comes out of his hole after three days to lay colored eggs all over the yard. While he’s out, if he sees his shadow, we get 4 more weeks of winter. If he doesn’t see his shadow, he goes and gets all of the stuff that he lent out to people when he thought he was going to die, which is where lent comes from… people spend 40 days trying to learn to do without what Jesus gave them in case he wants it back on Easter.
I don’t believe in any gods.
Therefor i’m not a hypocryt and don’t celebrate any days that have to do with any religion.
I had a talk about that with a friend of mine today, and we agreed that people should create their own special celebrations.
Mine are old/newyear, my birthday and whenever i feel like suddenly throwing a party (which is about 5 times a year)
Hilarious!
Along the same lines: http://www.zombiejesusday.org
LOL!!!! This cracked me up. Thank you
In spite of the mockery on this blog, our risen Lord still loves each and every one of you. As long as you are alive, God will hold back His judgement and give you the opportunity to know Him. Christ didn’t come to condemn any of us, but to save us.
Happy resurrection day!
Prove it…or shut up.
Love this!
Just posted my own Happy Easter bit:
http://billpost.blogspot.com/2009/04/happy-easter.html
Don’t really like this, provocative and insulting just for a cheap laugh which isn’t really witty or humourous.. kind of childish
the story I heard about collecting easter eggs & bunnies comes from the N. sea islands where every spring people used to row out to collect the eggs of seabirds. the birds hunt fish during the day, meanwhile, wild rabbits crawl in their snuggly nests to keep warm. it still happens but the bird eggs are protected now (mostly)
this blog is very short-sited…if you really knew what jesus did he didnt just die after the third day he rose from the dead! idk bout you but thats what im thankful for, not having to spend eternity in hell, i get to spend it with my savior who showed me ultimate love by giving up his life for me and everyone else.
I wish christians would think about their mythology instead of just mouthing it like parrots.
Where is your Jesus now? He’s at the side of the father, no? Where is the sacrifice if God still has his son?
do you by any chance have a Christian Background? and if so do you think you are a good person? if you do think that you are good than please go to http://www.wayofthemaster.com and do the Good Person Test. it’s really cool!!!!
Would a patient participant – or perhaps the blogmaster -care to explain the rationale behind the angst towards Jesus Christ that’s present in this thread?
It seems a bit untoward to cruelly jest about someone’s vicious murder, if one doesn’t believe that it really happened.
In Christ,
CD
I am sorry that today was the day to bash Christianity. It’s sad that there is so much anger here. I clicked on the blog just checking Wordpress. Disconcerting that this would be their image on one of the Holiest days of the year. I realize that many of you feel enlightened by rejecting Christ. I hope you reconsider. Have a good weekend.
I love it!
Roger asked: …do you know what this blog is about? At all?
Actually as far as I know this is my first visit here.
This being said I had assumed this is an atheist blog, in which case I should expect that no particular deity would receive any particular notice or interest.
But perhaps it’s actually an anti-theist blog?
If so, then I might expect that all deities might receive more or less equal time being ridiculed, pilloried, etc.
Maybe because this is the week that many Christians worldwide meditate upon Jesus Christ’s passion, cross work, death, burial and glorious resurrection He gets some special treatment? Maybe a little gratuitous abuse? Maybe a little razzle-dazzle to rile up the poor, ignorant Bible-thumpers?
It just seems rather petty…that’s all. See, here’s the thing – I would think that maybe people who don’t believe in something might have other more important, pressing, or interesting things to do than sit around at their keyboards and viciously malign things they don’t even believe in, you know?
For example I should find it quite strange indeed if this blog were dedicated to heaping contempt, disdain, and ridicule upon “The Flying Spaghetti Monster”, and the combox participants were busily making up jokes and leaving harsh remarks about how utterly foolish, hateful and sinister the concept of a”Flying Spaghetti Monster” truly is.
Just a thought.
In Christ,
CD
Unthinking lightweights constantly attempt to infer a continuation of ancient festival celebrations as a backdrop for christian traditions. Obviously Jesus death was very specific and intended to be completed at the height of the Passover week since he was the true sacrifice for the world. The Jewish passover was only a foreshadowing of what was required to appease God’s wrath against sin. His rising from the dead brought new life and hope into the world.
Roger said: Oh, get over it.
Hmmm…seems a bit less than hospitable of you, but after all, it’s your blog space and your life, right?
Carry on!
In Christ,
CD
I’m not an atheist, I was raised in a Christian household/community.
However, I have found over the years that the one thing that bothered me the most about organized religion was how it took away the right of the people to believe what THEY wanted to believe.
I never understood how we could have traditions that were so NOT a part of what Christianity supposedly stood for and actually represented everything that Christians stood against. How could we celebrate the birth of Christ in December when he was born closer to the summer (June/July?). Why do we buy into all the commercialism that comes with these “holy traditions”. Why must we have the best decorations? The most twinkle lights? The glowing baby Jesus? The biggest tree? The chocolate eggs? The bunnies? The massive amounts of CRAP that we spend money on just to impress other people or buy a one way ticket into those pearly gates?
And WHHHHY won’t Christians, Muslims and Jews realize that most of the worlds religions all have something in common? That there is text older than the scrolls proving that holy stories similar to Christian ones, were being told hundreds of years before Christ and Christianity?
I never understood how, as Christians, we condemned other religions. Wasn’t God about love, acceptance, respect for fellow man and all that good stuff? Why did this sect have to be more right than that one? Why all the different sects? Because there were so many rules? Who made those rules? Pretty sure it wasn’t Jesus. Man wrote the bible and Man made those rules.
I’m spiritual but not religious. I believe that there is a God (or God’s or even Goddesses) and I believe that I should live a good life because it’s the right thing to do. NOT because I want some free pass into Heaven.
Thanks for this blog…I like that you can point out the fact that some who would call themselves devout spend more time following traditions and spouting forgiveness while quoting text than actually trying to do good for themselves or their fellow man.
Now excuse me, I have some chocolate bunny ears to eat.
The invention would not have been possible at all.
oh, i love this so much!
It’s even better – candy plus eternal life!
…because nothing says devotion like a wind-up, egg-pooping bunny!
Isn’t freewill wonderful? We all have the opportunity to at some point in our lives come to understand our brokenness, and then decide just how to deal with it…there’s that river in Egypt approach, and the “I’m much too fast to take that test” approach, even the “someday when sin just isn’t so much fun I’ll consider it” approach…Someday we’ll all “approach” God, on our knees, confessing the truth! personally, I think that you guys need to come up with some much better material,if you try spouting off some of the stuff I’ve read here to Him it’s NOT going to be pretty…it’s YOUR eternity,and YOUR choice, choose wisely…
I don’t think I’ve ever seen “Om nom nom” in writing before; yet, I can hear a cartoon character nom-nomming so clearly when I read it. Great job.
I find it interesting that chocolate is so extensively used for Easter when the folks of that time didn’t even know it existed!
Chocolate comes from the cacao plant and that is indigenous to the Americas :)
And also, if your imaginary sky friend is so all powerful, then why did it need a blood sacrifice to “appease” it’s wrath? Seems kind of…stupid, don’t’cha think?
The answer to your question is no, it isn’t stupid at all.
The One True and Living God of the Holy Bible is the unique and sole Creator of all things in existence, and all things hold together by the power of His Word alone. Mankind became sinfully corrupted when the federal head and representative of our race, Adam, rebelled against the Creator, bringing God’s curse upon all those born of the flesh after Adam, which includes every human being ever born apart from the Lord Jesus Christ.
The curse of sin and death corrupted every part of the fallen creature man, who is now subject of futility in his life and mind. Even his reasoning power – his thought life – is full of sin and rebellion against the knowledge of God. As you might imagine this places man in a terrible predicament because he still retains the knowledge within his own consciousness that he is made in the image of God – that even in his fallen state he is still God’s image bearer – yet he is driven by his sinful heart of rebellion and active personal disobedience to God’s authority to suppress the knowledge of God in unrighteousness. And it must be noted that mankind is morally and personally (individually) culpable and responsible for his own rebellion and he knows it.
Man clearly sees the revelation of the One True and Living God in the natural order, man sees his power on display everywhere and at all times and man even senses his Creator’s infinite perfections within immaterial and transcendent universal laws such as logic itself. The very foundation of reason requires the presupposition of a perfect and holy transcendent God, yet the rational materialist cannot account for things such as transcendent universal laws, and must therefore by necessity be driven to futility and irrationality, because the alternative is nothing less than to acknowledge the truth of the absolute authority of the One True and Living God of the Holy Bible.
The Muslims don’t have a god like the One True and Living God, in fact the Koran rejects Him outright, substituting “Allah”, the moon god, in His place.
The Jews have rejected the One True and Living God because they rejected Him when He came into the world as Jesus Christ. They have substituted the vain traditions of men and legalism for the knowledge of Him.
Like Islam and traditional Judaism all the religions of men that have ever existed are idolatrous and are merely streams of the one false religion of human merit. People are driven to do “good things” because their Creator made them to serve Him, but since He is rejected people turn their desires to do “good things” toward idols, thereby corrupting any goodness they may have thought to do in the process and heaping even more sin upon their own heads.
Biblical Christianity is the one pure and true religion which is based not upon what men do for their “god”, or for other men, or for themselves, but rather is based upon what God has done for men. God Almighty miraculously took on human flesh and came into the world in the person of Jesus Christ, the second Adam, to live the perfect life that God demands of all people everywhere. In doing this Christ fulfilled all the obligations of God as revealed in the Holy Bible, thus being fully and totally righteous in and of Himself, something no other human being could ever have done.
Christ stands in the place of sinners as their substitute, reconciling to God all those who come to Him by grace alone, through faith alone. Jesus Christ bore God’s holy wrath against sin upon the cross making Himself the only mediator between God and men, and the only hope of salvation leading to eternal life. The alternative is abiding under the eternal wrath of God in hell.
Because of these truths all men and women everywhere who are apart from Christ stand condemned, abiding under the wrath of the Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty to whom all praise and glory is due from all His creatures.
And perhaps the saddest part is that people recognize these truths in their heart of hearts. They know something is wrong, even if they can’t place their finger on it. In their heart of hearts they know they abide under the wrath of an angry, righteous God above them, they know they have a guilty conscience within them constantly wagging its accusing finger in their face crying “guilty, Guilty, GUILTY!”, and they know there’s a yawning hell beneath them where there is eternal punishment in flames and weeping and gnashing of teeth.
It’s for these Christ came. He came to seek and save the lost and gave His life for them.
Allah didn’t do that.
Buddha didn’t do that.
No one else did that.
The God of the Holy Bible is wrathful and requires justice because He is perfect. This is why he requires appeasement of His wrath. He would be less than perfect and in fact would be an unjust judge if He simply “forgave” people out of some sort of feeling of cosmic benevolence.
Even sinful lost human beings can see the breach of justice. If a judge simply “forgave” everyone who came before his bench, regardless of the crime committed and without any consideration of the guilt or innocence of the accused we’d call him unjust and demand that he be removed. If every judge acted in this manner then all the criminal justice systems in the world would collapse.
It’s because God is just that He requires punishment for crimes against Him, and it’s because He is merciful that He came and paid the price Himself. Christians call this grace.
I wish you all a happy Resurrection Sunday!
In Christ,
CD
tl;dr
“It’s for these Christ came. He came to seek and save the lost and gave His life for them.”
Ironically enough there are billions of miserable awful people in the world. What did Christ do wrong?
Meanwhile the Buddha tries to set your soul at ease and help you understand what happiness is despite who you are while Christ is being a judgemental asshole, leading a whole religion of stubborn judgemental assholes. WHAT A COOL GUY!
Coram Deo said, “Christians call this grace.”
– My cat is named Grace :) She likes bunnies but she’s not so much into big spikes or chocolate candies.
God is Love.
“I wish you all a happy Resurrection Sunday!”
I am now in heaven using a heavenly computer until monday.
Thank you Christ for the foretaste of heaven.
I can’t get enough of this circular reasoning. “I’m right because I’m right because I’m right…”
Pointing at yourself and saying “am so!” isn’t convincing. It’s childish.
“19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.”
I am still waiting in heaven for God to make it plain to me, sadly He and his angels are on earth celebrating with christians, so lonely up here, but I will be back on earth on monday.
Hitler was a Christian, so he’s automatically good in their book, right? One of them.
Well, let the zombie worshiping death cultists believe whatever they want.
All of you who are *not* insane, I hope you have a great weekend and… try to do something fun for the pagan fertility celebration these pseudochristians are going on about, OK?
I wonder if my cat, Grace, would like ^ Donny’s ^ porn?
*shudders*
Hey! Keester rhymes with Easter!
=P
Hey, congratulations on the success of your blog! I recently started my very own wordpress blog so hopefully you can check it out when you have the time. Good luck in the future!
http://chicagoismynewblog.wordpress.com/
As a Rhode Islander, I’d like to point out proudly that Jesus was crucified in our state. And anyone who doesn’t believe it just hasn’t looked at that scroll nailed to the top of the cross.
You guys ar sure uneducated about the facts. Easter is connected with the PAssover of the Jews. That’s why John the Baptist called him the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world. Jesus Christ died on Passover Day in 32 AD. He was the last Passover lamb to be slain. A pagan historian by the name of Thallus who lived in A.D. 52 recoreded that there was a miraculous darkness covering the face of the earth on Passover 32 A.D. So the hoiliday or day of celebration is rightly timed on the calendar. About the candy, I agree that it is not in keeping with the awesomeness of the event, yet, no other religion including Atheism can claim such a tremdous foundation of belief backed up by the facts. Easter is so exciting because shortly afterward the disciples of Jesus went into an upper room in Jerusalem where they were filled with the Holy Spirit and literally changed their known world. In fact Christianity was so powerful that even the Roman Eperor Constantine embraced Christianity for political purposes. This doesn’t sound like a farse or anomoly of sorts. They were so powerulf in their witnesses and miracles that their movement was irresistable. They had received God’s Spirit and it changed their lives. I use to be agnostic of sorts but when I encountered God first-hand it litterally changed my life. No one can refute that and it has been about thirty five years of joy and happiness. So guys, don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. I’m not talking about church, I’m talking about a personal encounter with God.
Thanks and Prayers
Greg
FocusonFreedom.net
fabulous!
This is funnier–and perhaps less insulting?–than George Carlin’s bit about pork chops.
Just another reason why so many folks so dislike atheists. Pretty childish, this.
Truly funny people don’t have to belittle others spiritual beliefs to get a laugh. Turn about is fair play- “when you die, I hope you fry!” Ha ha- A riot, eh?
I will never understand the relation. Anyway, how is babby formed?
The bible was written by illiterate arabs back when they thought the earth was flat. Any 12 year old today knows incredibly more about the universe than the wisest man of biblical times.
Religion could not possibly be started today. Can you imagine a woman walking into any major hospital anywhere in the world today and explaining that she was a pregnant virgin and that she was carrying the child of a man or spirit in the sky.
“Code 69. Get someone down here from Psyche, STAT!”
Religion is something one inherits from their family,society, or culture. If Osama Bin Laden had been born in Kansas he would probably be a Baptist. If he had a good education he would probably be a scientist.
ok, maybe I scrolled too fast and missed this along the way, so bear with me, but yesterday I was at Barnes and Noble and saw this actual book (the one that began this thread). And so, having seen it here on Unreasonable Faith, I just had to read it and what a fine read it was indeed.
“It’s fun to decorate Easter eggs… turn page… BUT Jesus___________”. “It’s fun to wear new clothes, BUT Jesus________”. “It’s fun to go on egg hunts with my friends, BUT Jesus_______________”.
Dry heave. Nothing but a book to alleviate parental guilt that with all this fal-da-ra of new clothes, baskets, bunnies, and eggs, that oopsie- Jesus is getting lost in all the commotion (funny how Jesus does that so much- gets lost so easy I mean. Like my keys). So- let’s just fix that by having a fun little book to remind us of priorities here. Uh-huh. Like when you have to open the frickin’ card before you attack the wrapping on the present. Learned impulse control. Sorta like my black lab who must “shake hands” to get her treat. But can’t you see? She gets it. She’s not after the treat really- she wants to shake hands with you. Really. She does…
That was HI-larious! It’s a good thing you were listed as a top post, or I would never have come across your blog-and that would be ashame. YA RLY.
I was raised Catholic, and over 15 years ago (I’m 29) I realized that what the christian religion was trying to sale was complete and utter nonsense. Not so much about “God”, or a higher-power, (whatever you wish to call it) but in the sense of tradition. Organized religion is nothing more than a traditional superstition.
As far as the Bible is concerned, people only see/read what they want too. Line 10 random people up, have them read the same passage, and then ask each one what their interpretation was-you’ll get a different answer nearly everytime. Beyond that, any person of intelligence can clearly see the inconsistencies and contradictions amongst the “word of God.”
If I had to choose a religion, it would probably still be Roman Catholicism. This specific sect intrigues me, and I am convinced the Vatican knows way more than they are letting on. “Stigmata” is one of my favorite movies, the screen writer is a brilliant philosopher, and though the movie is technically fiction-it rings more truth then people realize.
annabella@
“Your Daily Dose of Random Revelations”
Jesus is not God he was born of a sinner woman, virgin birth, angels singing on his birthday, three kings bowed at him and etc. he is still not God.
God cannot die but Jesus died God is Spirit, formless but Jesus died and went to hell and the Spirit of God came to rescue him the so called resurrection. Jesus God needed another GOD to save him? What type of God is this? Your salvation is questionable and that’s why Christians are suffering miserable life you sideline God and worship man who is dead man can’t bless or save you.
Another thought God don’t eat but Jesus asked for food from the disciples at the seashore, after his resurrection. There are thousands over scripture stated Jesus is not God and he even deny of himself and said ‘no man is good but God the Father in me is ‘
Wow, Daniel. Will you ever run out of material? I mean, how many days in a row can you rake on Jesus before it gets a little old? I don’t know how old you are, but your material is stuff you could find if you went to the library and read stuff that is too old to get archived on Google (which has about a 5-year memory.)
Yeah. Joking about the crucifixtion and chocolate Easter bunnies is about as original as an NBC police show. It’s all been done before, but I guess that doesn’t stop people from still trying.
Reminds me of the Athiests Convention. They have one, you know. Every year, they have a keynote speaker. I would guess it’s the same talk – “There is no god!”
But we get it. You don’t believe in Jesus. That’s your right. But keep it coming. Never get tired of the “Why there was no Jesus” commentary. Been out there for 2000 years.
Religion is man trying to connect with the one Supreme God the Creator of the Universe unless your naive to believe all this happened here on earth and in the universe by Chance. Christianity is God sending His only begotten Son to earth in order to have a relationship with man and see his heart turn away from sin and closer to His creator.There is a hole in our heart we try to fill with religion, drugs, sex, anger, fear, unbelief etc that can only be filled by God. Take all the knowledge in the world. Maybe you know a dot on the grid. What if that dot of knowledge in the bigger picture is inaccurate and just maybe there is a God? We all have a choice to follow the ways of God in the Bible i.e. love, patience, kindness, worshiping God and no other idols etc. Or you can reject Him as they did Christ but no other figure who has walked the earth has split time as He did and no other figure has more followers who followed him in theses past 2,200 years.
Something to consider since none of us know it all. I bid you peace.
Great post. Funny too, when buying candy for the kids at Target last week I told my husband we should throw some toys in the baskets this year and skip the candy. He said, “but Easter has always been about the candy”. I looked at him and said, “no, honey, technically it’s about Jesus”.
May be a language barrier, but the title sounds me as a horrible sin and an insult to us, the Christ followers. God forgive you.
That’s what He’s supposed to be all about…forgiveness!
=P
Reformed Fred:
Hey there, what is this thread and other post you are speaking of? Can you link it? Also, if you enjoy this blog, you should check out mine. It’s not all about religion, but of many “random revelations.” If you enjoy entertainment, and controversy- you should enjoy my blog. It has everything from personal memoirs, to politics, to sports, and beyond.
http://annabellasepiphanies.wordpress.com/
Hope to see you soon!
xo
annabella
Hilarious how fired up everyone gets. Let me ask, has anyone changed their mind yet because of these posts? So eloquent, all of them, it would be a shame if not even one hit home with somebody on the other side of the fence…
perfect, elemenope, perfect.
I’m always interested to listen in on debates about God, the existence of God, the role of God, the plan of God . . . you get the picture. Something I’ve discovered in listening and participating in such discussions is this: nobody is really out to change anyone elses mind. Everyone enters such debates with the knowledge that in such cases and hot topics as these, opinions are not changed. Rather, the whole point is to justify one’s own belief to the world, and in so doing, to make oneself look quite intelligent. I say this in regard to theists and atheists alike.
I’ve watched the atheist walk away proudly from heated discussions which clearly he won. Did he change the mind of his opponent. Not remotely. If anything, he strengthened the future faith of the theist by pointing out the present weaknesses of his arguments. Likewise, I’ve watched a theist dominate an argument in which he had the distinct advantage of intellect; he too walking away pleased with his victory, his opponent just as opposed to theism as before. This amuses me becuase it has always seemed to undermine the very cause of the argument in the first place. If either person can walk away feeling good that he has “won” when no new facts have been presented and no minds changed, is the argument really about God? I think not.
We all want to really believe what we say we believe. I will never believe a person who tells me that they have never doubted what they claim as truth. If the atheist argues, he does so to convince himself. If the theist argues, he does so to convince himself. The battle is internal; it has always been internal. The thrill of victory that comes after having duped one’s opponent in debate is not the result his reexamining his beliefs, but the satisfaction of reaffirming one’s own.
If the arguments were really about God, neither party would leave satisfied. If the arguments stemmed from reasons of true, unselfish concern for others, even the “winner” would leave with sorrow that his opponent had not been enlightened. If the argument were ever about anything besides confirming pre-held beliefs to oneself, the argument itself would cease to exist, for the argument never ceases to be about self.
To be human is to be selfish. To be human is to disagree. To be human is to believe. We argue in order that the world might know who we are. We argue in order that we might know the world. But we succeed only when we know who we are; when we know that we can convince ourselves of a thing, if nobody else; when we know that the opinions of the world matter as little to us as our opinions to the world.
Oh, and Tabbie,
“Live. Laugh. Love. Cry. Feel angry. Feel happy. Feel sad. Feel scorn. Feel pride. It’s all good, but we must remember to allow others the same choices we wish to have for ourselves. Free will, freedom of choice and freedom of thought…all these things are priceless.”
I couldn’t agree more. I’m not arguing against argument, I’m just taking a different approach.
this made me giggle, who knows what would of happened if jesus didnt die..humm..
:)
Why do the overly religious get hooked into the debates that will never be won on either side. I’m Christian, but I respect Rogers right to blog about his beliefs, and humour, and life, whatever. The arguments, all which are able to go round and round and round, bring out nothing but anger. Actually it’s not the arguments, it’s the arrogance on both sides. All religions and beliefs have schisms, and nobody will be 100% satisfied with all flavors. But each has a favorite. I myself, prefer the peanut butter/chocolate sugar free bunnies.
Happy Easter & Peace to all…
ANGRY ATHEISTS
Every so often a thread like this develops that brings in lots of new-to-the-blog Christians. One of the tropes that generalizes along behind is that nonbelievers in the thread are angry. Sure, there is a little anger here or there but really not much and certainly not in general.
It’s skewed and yet happens over and over. I’m interested because I don’t have a handle on the reason.
[quote]I love my family and friends.
I love them to a degree that when i feel like meeting up with them.. i make the time to meet up with them.
I don’t need some day that was picked by a church because of some religion to suddenly have the urge to meet up with my family.
To be honest.. especially christmas i find disgusting.
I really don’t need any excuse to stuff myself on any other day and i sure as hell (pun intended) don’t need some fat made up guy.. or some religion i don’t support to tell me that this 1 day i need to think about my family and friends.. and grandma who i normally wouldn’t bother to visit but i should right now because it’s christmas and otherwise i would be a horrid person.[/horrid]
I so totally agree. Religions were made by man to explain what could not be explained in an era when there was little to no science. Now we have the ability to explain things that happen around us and no longer need religion. I am an Atheist and do not need a religion based upon irrational beliefs to tell me when I should get together with my family, eat certain foods, etc. I especially hate Christmas because of all the hustle and bustle that interferes with my shopping enjoyment. Christmas is about greed and spending money that you don’t have so to keep the economy going. The mythical Jesus wasn’t even born in the wintertime.
My only consolation is that in the beginning, religions worshiped multiple numbers of gods and goddesses. Later, they decreased the number. Still later, they decreased it more. Now the major religions are down to one God. I can’t wait until they get rid of that one as well.
As far as Atheist who spend their time talking about something that they don’t believe in order to convince themselves not to believe – Christians spend a lot of time talking about their beliefs and trying to convert others. Isn’t that like the same thing?
If anyone has read Gilgamesh and about Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, and other religions that were in place prior to the advent of Christianity, they would understand why Atheist scoff at those who believe such tripe as the Bible. I would like you to consider that the death of Jesus was a suicide because he made no attempts to flee and, instead, set himself up to be killed. Isn’t that a sin? And I do find it hard believing that having an innocent person die a horrible, sadistic death in order to save the souls of sinners is a credible and reasonable way of handling sinners.
[quote]We should ged rid of the notion that religion is in any way more “sacred” than anything else. [/quote]
I couldn’t agree with you more.
yes, Easter candy also sent by Pope to earthquake victims. my thoughts are like yours, a sarcastic, that’s awesome!
http://osirisjournal2.wordpress.com
Tool.
Happy Easter!
I am at loose ends today because I am taking care of my sick cat so I can’t drive up to join my family. My family always gets together for dinner on Easter and we enjoy it. When my generation were kids we all got visits from the Easter Bunny on Easter morning, and now it’s my nephews and nieces who get those visits. Easter is a time for flowers and fresh air and winter finally turning into spring. When I was a kid it also meant dressing up in our best, but that’s fallen by the wayside and we are all slobs now.
Since I feel so nostalgic, I’ll say something nice about my childhood religion, Roman Catholicism. I like that it takes sin seriously. It doesn’t say: good people don’t sin, so if you sin you are a bad person and we should shrink away from you in horror and throw you out of society. Instead it says that we all sin, we are all born hopelessly corrupted by the Orginal Sin and so none of us will ever be good. In your heart, you know this is true. In your heart, you know that you have messed up and done evil.
Christ died to wash away our sins because you can’t just pretend a sin didn’t happen. A sin is an injury. If someone’s arm is cut off you can’t say, well, that was just a mistake, so we’ll just pretend it didn’t happen and that the arm is still there. Once an injury happens, then the consequences have to be dealt with.
So the big lesson is that we all have to watch each others backs. The people you trust and love are going to do bad things, they’re going to get problems that are entirely their own fault, and you have to be understanding and help them pick up the pieces. And they should help you in turn. Because although we should all strive for perfection we’re ALL going to mess up at times; it’s part of being human.
I always liked those ideas. I like reading Western philosophers who understand that forgiveness and redemption are problems that need to be taken seriously. I appreciate Nietzche’s thought that we should focus on being strong, since if you spend all your time thinking about how weak you and making weakness the centerpiece of your religion then you won’t ever try to not be weak, but, nonetheless, I think there is something important int he idea that we are all sinners. I bet Nietzche knew that too: his ideas are in opposition to his religious upbringing and aren’t exactly meant to stand up all by themselves.
People seem a bit touchy today, so maybe I should be clear about myself: I’m an atheist. So, for example, I don’t go for the Original Sin story where the omnipotent omniscient God creates sin, lays a trap for his humans, then gets all mad when they fall into the trap which he had set and which he omnisciently knew they were going to fall for, and so curses all their descendents forever. Similarly, I reject the Resurrection of Christ story too. What I like is philosophy.
Oh, and by being “understanding” of people doing evil things I don’t mean that I forgive Hitler or child murderers or that I am willing to codependently let people dump on me. Thst is more extreme than I am willing to go. All things in moderation.
Everyone is so caught up with the “when” of Christs death and resurrection, how come know one is talking about the why. Jesus isn’t a religious symbol. He was man and God in the same person, He came to do a job that none of us could accomplish. He conquered hell and death. For everyone making posts. So think of it this way, no matter who you are…. ignorant, poor, rich, black, white, muslim, hindu, jew, man, woman, politician, gay or straight, HE DIED FOR YOUR SIN!! and He knew that there would be ridicule and mockery (like these posts) but He did it any way. Jesus left His prominent place at home to come down here and be a mockery, endure shame and be blasted for you. Then, just when they mockers thought it was over and he was dead and placed in a tomb, He got up!! And He’s still up and the tomb is still empty. So give the candy jokes a rest, come down off your chocolate high and use your heart to figure out the real truth about why Easter, why Passover and why we still have freedom to write this ridiculous stuff in this country, it’s because He gave us freedom, freedom from sin, freedom from oppressive government, freedom to live.
Who cares why bunnies and chocolate are celebrated on Easter, it’s there for the kids. Christ is the reason for the season. New life, life in Him, and while we were all still sinners, He died for us. hmmm, now that’s love!!
I guess you wanted lots of comments to your blog, so the best you could do is mock God to get them. You are truly a fool and you expose so many to their own foolishness every time you stoke their stupidity. And I can’t help but state that you didn’t try Christianity and it didn’t work, Christianity tried you and you didn’t work. And you’re still not working.
Great discussions, but missing the point slightly, because it’s not about bunnies, eggs, which day or whatever! Now the chocolate has been eaten and eggs have melted back into storage for another year; but guess what we’re left with: Jesus. This is it, Easter is over for another year, whatever pagan festival it may allude to, but Jesus remains.
He is alive! Miracle? Can we believe this today? In fact if He hadn’t risen from the dead, then we probably would not be having this discussion. He would be just another prophet, holy man, good guy, doing good things. But He got up again, that changed things.
This guy was different because He came alive again. OOps! This is awkward! What’s going on here?
Answer: if he hadn’t died for us then there would be no happy ever after! Now there is.
So it’s not really about eggs and things, these distract us. It’s about the resurrection, that’s all that matters for us all.
Happy Easter Blessings.
Actually the only reason I’m taking my time writing is to say: I thought the title of this short expose is offensive.
Nobody is asking you or anyone else here if you want to celebrate Easter; moreover, nobody is forcing anything down anyone’s throats.
If I had the type of mentality that was given to being disdainful to anyones ideologies or sacred beliefs I still wouldn’t waste my time with this…ALTHOUGH,
“ucbones” made a very fascinating point and in a fashion to be admired and respected…it’s not about eggs and candy but for us, Easter is about life.
jps
(sigh) why bother, nobodies going to see me all the way down here
OK – This is to all the naysayers: btw…I am a former naysayer, non-conformist, humanist, new age naturalist, turned Christ-follower….I can say this because I’ve been there, where you are right now…
THE NAYSAYER CHALLENGE:
Search for the answer to this question: Who is Jesus?
use whatever means you need to answer the question,
BIBLE (John is a good place to start),
BOOKS – Evidence demands a verdict (http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Demands-Questions-Challenging-Christians/dp/0785243631), Case for Christ (http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307)….
Or TALK to someone you trust who is a Christ follower….
and after you have examined “all” of the evidence and made your final conclusion, come back to me and tell me that I am insane and should be committed to a mental institution.
Or tell me that you finally discovered the truth …then we can be on the same page and have an honest conversation about Faith, Christ and His death and resurrection…
What is sweeter than chocolate bunnies? God’s love is sweeter and lasts longer (a lot longer)….enjoy your new journey!
btw, the BIBLE is still the best source, doesn’t take a scholar to understand the Gospels…that’s why it was written in terms that children can understand…
Good night my unbelieving friends!!
Here’s something awesome to consider or reject.
As ‘dougwadedesign’ said, quoting from John 1 that Jesus was the word. I agree it is very difficult to understand, but it is simple!
Jesus existed before the universe was created. He was there at the beginning of time and will always exist. He is the source of everything. He is in everything and everything is held together by Him. If the earth was a few degrees off axis; if gravity was slightly different; if the sun was further away; or the oceans too deep, then we would all cease to exist. Scientists consider that in all the universe there is nothing like earth, it is unique.
Jesus keeps all things stable; the seasons; the air; nature is all attributed to Him, everything is in His hands; we are in His hands. God reveals all this to everyone, that is His will. (Romans 1). It is called general revelation.
Now mediate on this: that Jesus, this immense being, who created everything, the universe, the earth, and US, should choose to come to earth in human form and be savagely tortured ( read academic accounts of crucifixion) for the sole purpose of rescuing us from our sins. Can you comprehend the creator of everything becoming human and dying for you. Isn’t that awesome, isn’t that incomprehensible? Reflect on this, and perhaps in this he deserves your respect.
There are only two cases here: one that He was a crazy man, a mad prophet, and two, that He was in fact God, the creator of everything, who chose to save you. He could have destroyed everything ( The Flood), but He chose not too.
Blessings
Jt Crawford:
Sorry for the delay. I will gladly give you a few examples, but let me make one thing clear; I do believe in “God”, or a higher power. I DO NOT buy into organized religion. I have experienced “miracles”, and ethereal enigmas; for that reason I believe there is an afterlife- another dimension, if you will. However, I feel it’s much more complex and beautiful then your average “christian” makes it out to be. With that said here are some examples.
1. Sodom and Gomorrah- Most christians will tell you, and interpret this passage as an “anti-homosexual campaign.” A perfect example to my earlier post when I spoke of people seeing/reading only what they want too. For to long christians have missed the larger picture. The town wasn’t destroyed because of homosexual activities, it was detroyed because it was a town inundated with deviance. Angels were raped, incest was rampant, children were being molested, and orgies were commonplace. Homosexuality was far from mind of the maker when the town was destroyed, I guarantee you. (If the story wasn’t a fable made up to introduce the need for morality.) This brings me to the next example.
2. When reminded of this, most christians will swiftly refer to the passage that says,” Man shall not lie with another man.” I’ll throw you another curve ball. In the same version of the Bible, it also says that it is an “abomination” to wear, or use two different clothes(like wool and cotton) for dressing. It is also an “abomination” to eat specific types of meat, or to have sex with your “wife” during her menstral cycle. It has become widely known, that in those times, many passages such as these were made for hygenic and health purposes.
3. Since we’re on the subject of morality and the laws of the Bible, I have another bone to pick. If it is so imperative that we follow “the word of God” to a tee, and all the laws of Jesus’ time, then why are men not allowed more than one wife as was common then? It’s convieniant that in modern day society we see fit to change what we think should be changed. Bigomy is only illegal because it is morally wrong. Think about it though, who decided that it was morally wrong?, and why? Man and Woman, as we were taught by Adam and Eve, were put on earth ONLY for procreation, according to the Bible. Sex wasn’t meant to be pleasurable or to become a past-time. It was made pleasurable so procreation would be bearable. (Again, according to the argument of christians.)
4. Lastly, for now…. The most hypocritical piece of evidence comes from a well known passage in the Bible. “JUDGE NOT LEST THEE BE JUDGED” It’s comical really, how christians are always pointing a finger. I can’t tell you the number of times, both subtly and crudely, I’ve been told I will go to hell for being this, or doing that. To judge me is just as big a sin as any, for there is no sin greater than another. A sin is a sin-there is no jusifying any variation of any sin you may have commited. No human will ever bask in the shadow of perfection as Jesus did. He died on the cross for our sins, to give us freedom of choice- and yet, choice is not an option in many christians eyes.
Before I sign off, I want to say this: I’m aware I didn’t give exact quotes to the specific passages I spoke of, but I assure you they are there. I’m not going to go pulling out my Bible to give exact quotes for people who don’t want to see the truth anyway. I’m sure most of you have a Bible somewhere- and Google is a lifesaver, you can type in the keywords for whatever it is you are looking for specifically-or go get your Bible and skim it. It’s there. Open your eyes.
Goodnight and much love.
annabella
Doug:
The Bible does and did take scholars, many scholars because your passges in your Bible were originally written in so many different languages. This is why it is impossible to say for sure what exactly was right, and what is not.
Translation is a very difficult trade. Many a scholar have debated the same text and come up with an entirely different reading. Thats a fact, it’s history. Research it for yourself. In fact, there are still many scriptures that have yet to be translated, including “The Lost Sea Scrolls.” The reason for this is because they were written in Aramaic. The oldest language there is. A common misconception is that Jesus spoke Hebrew, he did not. He spoke Aramaic, and that is what “The Lost Sea Scrolls” are written in; they are believed to be one of the only REAL scriptures written by Jesus himself, as the rest were written by his disciples.
More…
According to Rferl, Across much of the non-Arab Muslim world, people are celebrating Norouz, the festival that marks the arrival of spring and the beginning of the new year.
[...]
Norouz traditionally celebrates the awakening of nature, life’s renewal, and the triumph of good and light over the darkness of winter. The new year is marked when the sun leaves the astrological sign of Pisces and enters Aries.
[...]
Among the rituals associated with the Norouz celebration is the bonfire –called Chahar Shanbeh Soori — held on the last Wednesday before the holiday. Thanks are given for the good fortune of making it through another winter. To purge oneself of any remaining “paleness” or evil, families lay down piles of wood and brush, igniting them shortly after sunset, and run alongside the fires, occasionally jumping over the flames.
(http://www.en.baybak.com/from-azerbaijan-to-india-spring-festival-norouz-begins.azr)
Sorry, looking for “african tribes” it’s too general. there are lots of different rituals in the continent. Also, looking for native cultures in new zealand and australia it’s not so easy. Anyway, you should look here for festivities in september, not march. But I think with those examples it’s enough. Isn’t it?
My face is red I’m laughing so hard at these comments… This is ridiculous!
Many people argue with atheists by quoting scripture. Atheists don’t believe the Bible is the word of god. It is totally useless to defend the “truth” of a book using quotes from the book itself. “God is perfect because the Bible says so; the Bible is true because it’s the word of a perfect god” is circular logic. If you want to be convincing, you *must not* have “god exists” as one of the premises supporting the conclusion that “god exists”. That means, among other things, not using the Bible to support your premises.
@ ucbones
ucbones:” …. In reply to Roger’s comments I can reply: have you asked the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you? ”
mark:” are you referring to Jesus Christ being our lord and savior when you say truth. ”
ucbones:”That’s part of it, but the truth is the whole of God’s word ( John 17:17) ”
mark:”Please give me your best understood definition of gods whole word. ”
ucbones:”The Bible ”
So basically we should ask the holy spirit ( a concept that comes from the bible), to reveal the holy spirits whole word which just happens to be contained in the bible. You don’t see a problem with this type of logic because from my way of thinking you could use these same process to prove that the Koran is real, or that the Jewish version of god is real?
“Difficult to answer this one because I do not personally know everyone, but God extends His invitation of salvation to all people. ”
How can you be sure that god extends his invitation to everyone, what do you base this statement on otherwise any follower of any religion can make same statement.
Did god (christian god) extend his invitation to all of those who have never heard of Jesus or Christianity.
What about people who are severely mentally challenged.
Exactly how does god extend his salvation to all people, exactly what do you base this statement on. How can you be sure it is the christian god extending this invitation.
“Perhaps if people have not found God then either it is not yet the time that God has ordained, or they have not approached Him in humility and repentance of their sins. I would say that God knows everyone and promises that whoever seeks God with a sincere heart will find Him. ”
I have a problems with this statement, the bible clearly states this-
” Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24
-which appears to me to contradict your statement above. This statement says nothing about approaching god with humility, also was Paul being humble when he god converted him from non belief to belief of the christian god.
“If you became a Christian you must have found
God! Puzzled! ”
If I became a christian exactly what does that mean. What gives you the right to question the fact that I was a christian.For your info I became a christian the same way most people in this country become christian, I grew up in a household with christians. When I tried to learn more about god as I god older I realized that after all of the praying to your loving god who supposedly wants us to find your god was not responding. Why is your god hiding from people trying to find him, why is your god playing coy.
“Yes! But did I claim that God does everything we ask?
“We have to come to the Lord with a repentant heart, not with one that demands He does what we ask and tells us everything on our terms”
Doesn’T this verse from the bible contradict this statement.
” Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24 “
Wow. Are you all still at this? It’s time to move on. Once these people get this god thing implanted in their brains as young people it is almost impossible to get it out of them. That’s the whole reason they have to get them very early. Hell, they even have SCHOOLS ASSOCIATED WITH RELIGION!?! The ultimate crime against reason.
If we taught all little children that they were created by Green Chairs and then we built Green Chair Cathedrals on every other street corner in American towns and cities and we met in these cathedrals once or twice a week and sang praises to the trinity of maple, oak and green paint these same little chair worshipers would grow into sedentary Green Chair worshipping adults.
Even if they later received a good secular education and came to realize that religion is INHERITED and silly beyond belief they would always be just a bit leery of any Green Chair that they encountered. And Green Chair forbid if they should ever slip up and say GREEN CHAIR DAMN. That miscue would always have them casting sideways glances toward the nearest forest from which Green Chair material originated from virgin seedlings.
I THINK I AM RECEIVING THE GREEN CHAIRS BLESSING EVEN AS I WRITE!?!!!! Maybe it’s a revelation! TIMBERLUJAH! I think I’m on to something! RED CHAIRS ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!! Of course. An adversary! Whether one is a Mapleite or and Oakite or a Cherryite it would be obvious to all that there is only one true Chair. Praise Green Chairs!!!!!!
Well, I have to go now. I have definitely received a timber experience. It’s so comforting to know now that when I die I will come back as a sapling in the Hoosier National Forest!
Peace and may you always have good wood…..
No matter what you say. Jesus the Son of God was born and walked this earth for 33 years. He died on the cross for everyone.
Though He could have called legions of angels to come to His rescue, He didn’t because but it was the love He bears for us( all mankind) that kept Him on that cross.
Three days after He was crucified He rose from the dead and is in heaven praying for you and loving you more than you can ever imagine.
2Co 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
So that you suffer self-percecution so that others can live a meaningful life by putting the blame on “satan”?
@markbey
In Spite of the fall you are claiming that god against homosexuality, gay marriage etc. If this is true then why would god create humans who do not fit the deffinition of male or female.
This is seems to contradict your beliefs that god is against homosexuality, if it doesn’t please explain how it doesn’t.
One observation is:
If homosexuality was the only way, or normal, or right as some will have us believe, than we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It takes one male and one female to have a sexual encounter to reproduce.
also,
because homosexuals cannot reproduce (other than adoption or by some scientific means) and that you cannot produce another human being without the male and female sexual organs. Obvious.
Seeing as the ability to “clone” and other scientific means have only been realized within the last hundred years or so, we still wouldn’t be having this conversation.
So to me, our very existence is proof that there is an error in this line of thinking.
Sorry,
I didn’t catch that, I didn’t mean that homosexuals could produce by adoption, I meant that they could not model a family except through adoption, and this model doesnt work either.
Um, Daniel, how did my comment end up 20 miles from where it was supposed to? Either I’m going blind or it’s a glitch :-/
Thank you Niva! You are just darling! I appreciate you. To answer your question, I have been in college for about 8 years. Five for undergrad and three for grad school (so far). I am seeking a PhD, so I’ll probably be in college for another five years! :( Oh, well, the things we do for passion!
Lol. Thanks. I appreciate you, too. Well I have yet to decide what I’m going to major in, so there’s no telling how long I’ll be in college. Hopefull not 8 years… But who knows. As long as I’m out before I get wrinkles. And I still have time to pay for it before I die.
(Therefore, God exists.)
Cadbury Mini Eggs are about the best damn things in the world.
ALL HAIL THE MINI EGGS! FOLLOW THE EGG!
It works better for Good Friday.
Why don’t they just make chocolate Jesus?
Someone tried that, but it upset the Papists, and we can’t have that.
My apologies.
Yes, Christian Easter is based on Passover, but don’t think that there was ever a clear date on which it was celebrated. The different early sects disagreed often on the matter, or whether it should be celebrated at all.
However the word Easter is from the Anglo-Saxon word Eostre, which is the Moon God, and whose festival was celebrated with symbols like the hare and the egg, to symbolize rebirth. These festivals where conveniently in the passover time, which makes sense because Passover became the Jewish spring festival.
The are similar Babylonian and Egyptian festivals, so spring festivals seem pretty typical, and why not, it’s a great time of year.
The xtians used these festivals, and their imagery, to promote Christ when they began to convert the pagans because it was easier to replicate their traditions. So my point is that Easter as we all learned in sunday school is basically the result of centuries of molding Christ’s convenient time of death into the spring festival, and making the spring festival about Christ instead of just spring, which is what the bunnies are about.
There are 2 problems with this: The first is that celebrating the easter bunny is like celebrating the pagan gods, so it smells of polytheism. The second is that God and Jesus himself explicitly said not to take traditions from others.
So you may say big whoop we’re still celebrating his death/resurrection, but it’s still important to recognize that Easter is a pagan holiday in it’s own right, and that xtians tacked on their own celebrations to it. So if Jesus had never existed, we’d still have a holiday at this time of year.
/ramble
The Catholic League hardly represents the rank-and-file American Catholic population in opinion or attitude.
Sacrelicious!
But, but, but…not even the candy?!
yeah !! – I am very careful to only buy chocolate eggs that wont convert me to any religious sect.
Holidays are wonderful reasons to calibrate. Congratulations for being so nonconformist and not taking advantage of events set up so that we can more easily spend time with our friends and family whom we don’t get to see often. You must be so excited.
Well I never look a gift day off in the mouth. In fact, I think atheists should campaign to get more religious holidays recognized. I mean, if we could get Ramadan officially celebrated we could knock off work for a whole month around Christmas or so.
In fact, if we do it right, we’d wind up not having to work more hours than the Japanese just to keep ourselves in Wal-Mart when we’re off work.
Praying five times a day? Five little vacations! Sweet. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday off every week? Sure.
In fact, properly recognizing merely the Saints of the Catholic calendar would get us oh, about 365 days off per year! Those guys have a lot of saints.
Brilliant!
God: doesn’t exist.
Jesus: wasn’t resurrected.
Easter Bunnies: don’t have jack to do with Jesus
Quoting Bible Verses: is utterly moronic on an atheist blog.
You are aware that quoting scripture at people who are already familiar with said scripture is unlikely to be an effective witnessing strategy, right?
Happy Jesus is dead day!
So let me get this right: this weird undefineable unknowable omnipotent omnipresent omniscient being had a human son (for some unknown reason he could only have one – doesn’t sound very potent to me), sent him off packing to good ‘ol Earth to let everyone know he really really exists (in the Palestine region no less – oy vey what was he thinking?).
Anyway, because he loves us so much he arranges to have this poor son brutally killed, apparently because this will save us. Three days later god obviously changed his mind and zaps his son back to life, lets him walk around for another 40 days, and then says OK thats enough and sucks him back up to heaven (so where is this huge sacriface? – he got him back safe and sound).
Because of all of this we now need to bow down and pray to this father and son, who apparently with some spook or other are all the same thing.
You couldn’t make it up for a childrens story could you? Can you see why this story is one big wtf?
Any wonder skeptics require evidence to substantiate such an incredible (read: so improbable as to be nonsense) story before we will join you in throwing ourselves at the feet of these products of an overactive imagination.
Carlotta– I dare you to back up just ONE of your claims with factual evidence or a coherent arugment. Just ONE!
So you believe that your god sacrificed himself to himself to appease his own rules which he created for us so he wouldn’t have to send us to hell for doing things which he said were bad after he created us to be able to break his standards even though he knew that we would anyway?
Are you sure?
Certainly the Easter Bunny and hiding eggs is taken from pagan traditions. Also the May pole and some other traditions. But Resurrection Sunday is wholly based on Scripture. You refer to “different early sects” and it’s not clear if you mean Jewish sects at the time of the crucification or Christian sects in the early church. In any case, the practice (or not) of some early Christian sects is not to the point. The majority of the Jews of Jesus’ time (including the Sanhedrin) observed Passover and of this there is no doubt. Gauss, who probably was smarter than both of us put together, developed a formula for calculating Easter and it’s still used by the Western churches. The name “Easter” probably did come from the pagan goddess but the event did not. The event turned a group of cowering followers of Jesus into a dynamic force which turned the world upside down.
In any case I’ve decided not to recognize Wednesday, because it’s the day for Woden, a Norse god. I guess I should stay in bed that day, or stay home and surf the net.
Take a look at some non-Christian cultures: China, Japan, India, Arabia, tribal Africa, Aboriginal Australia, Native New Zealand. What holidays do they have? Does this agree with your conclusion? Apparently not.
Whaaaaaaattttt? You mean athiesticts read or have read the bible?? Doesn’t a bible burn up or explode in the hands of immoral, baby-eating, heterosexual marriage destroying athiestics?
Daniel, in the future, please be sure to post only things everyone likes.
The nature of humor is cruelty. People just don’t seem to mind about that until it stabs at something close.
Waaaaaaaaaah!!!!
Agreed.
Sorry I get all mean around Easter…
It’s fun pissing people off every now and then. As long as they don’t crucify you for it.
So true, Elemenope. Way to nail them to the cross.
It’s a God-shaped plot hole. ;)
First, you mean “short-sighted.” Second, you couldn’t be less right. Third, prove the existence of this “god” and “hell” of yours.
Maria, what is it you’ll actually be doing in heaven?
Zombies rise from the dead. Brains…..BRAINS!!! Nom Nom Nom.
And you are very illiterate.
Illiteracy was not a sign of no intelligence before the last few decades, when people in poverty and agricultural lives couldn’t get a lot of standard education. With people in schools now, and with you, it’s lack of intelligence.
Moving along… no reasoning or good argument will be found from you!
You are a poor convincer for your chosen mythology.
Reminds me of Robert Heinlein writing that he couldn’t imagine a god who yearned to clutch every indolent moron to his breast.
maria’s circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular
maria says, “idk bout you but thats what im thankful for, not having to spend eternity in hell, i get to spend it with my savior…”
So maria, could you show us the get-into-heaven pass Jesus sent to you? Is it some sort of certificate that was mailed to you? Did Jesus stick a gold star on your forehead, or is it just that your anus glows in the dark now? I’d really like to know.
Such piercing humor!
Um, praising God for eternity, silly! ;-)
If by “really cool” you mean “a boatload of solipsistic nonsense designed to make Kirk and Ray feel self-satisfied in their pathetic attempts at ‘logic,’” then you’re absolutely right.
Save me Kirk Cameron!
-mike
Scarlett,
If lying once makes me a liar, does using a plunger once make me a qualified plumber?
Does building a Lego set make me an architect?
Does using a toaster make me the next Julia Childs?
No, obviously not.
So you are forced to admit that being good and not so good are worthy of degrees…Way of the Master fails.
WOW!!! Only $99 for 13 episodes – how could you not go fo a deal like that?
But it does strike me as a bit odd; surely religious orginisations don’t usually try to make money out of us do they?
You know what bugs me? Teh xtians have way cooler web pages than us un-enlighted atheists. We sure have a long way ahead of us until we can beat them at that ground.
Wow, this “good person test” is really great. Especially since it still tells you that you’ll go to hell even if you clicked “Innocent” every fcuking time… Now I’m depressed…
same web…
“What should I say to someone who has lost a loved one through cancer?”
Be very careful not to give the impression that God was punishing the person for his sins. Instead, speak about the fact that all around us we can see the evidence of a “fallen creation.” Explain how in the beginning there was no disease, pain, suffering, or death. But when sin entered the world, it brought suffering with it. Then gently turn the conversation away from the person who died to the person who is still living. Ask if he has been thinking about God, and if he has kept the Ten Commandments. Then take the opportunity to go through the spiritual nature of God’s Law. Someone who has lost a loved one often begins to ask soul-searching questions about God, death, and eternity. Many people are so hardhearted that it takes a tragedy to make them receptive to God.
mmm… i won’t let any evangelist close to me on that situation. Just to avoid another death
Do YOU by any chance read before you open your mouth?
Didn’t think so.
More of a christian background than you.
(The site’s creator and several people posting.)
And far more educated, with far better capacity to reason.
…do you know what this blog is about? At all?
Jesus’ death can be treated many ways:
1. The sad, premature end of an interesting life
2. The fulcrum around which the entire universe must turn
3. An excuse to eat lots of candy and contemplate bunnies
“1″ seems reasonable. “2″ seems just a bit out of proportion. “3″ is eminently mock-worthy.
Since even among Christians, “3″ tends to dominate, I hope I don’t have to draw a road map for why this is simultaneously funny and a poignant critique of tradition or tradition’s sake.
What? Too Soon?
Thankfully.
I just wish the media would figure that out and stop going to the League for soundbites. There’s a wing here in NY, and they keep showing up on the news as the spokesmen for the Catholic opposition to the Vermont gay marriage ruling.
Ummmm…NOPE!
Everyday is an excellent opportunity to bash Christianity. It’s a big fairy tale, and should be treated as such.
What I feel sorry about is the fact that so many christians won’t educate themselves. You consider today holy, but in fact, Easter is a pagan holiday based on the arrival of spring. Also, I’m not enlightened (ellucidated) by rejecting mythos, I’m enlightened (ellucidated) by studying science. I hope that you, in your stunted state, will reconsider your anti-intellectualist stance. The world is far more complicated that you imagine. Think about it. And have a good weekend yourself.
That’s a big slice of passive aggressiveness you have with your martyrdom. Go have a good weekend yourself.
Boy, they’re all coming out to play today?
Shouldn’t you be in church or something, not blogging?
Look, jtcrawford, I must remind you at this point that the human race has been on this planet for 100,000 (maybe as many as 200,000) years, whether you believe this or not.
The Bible was written roughly about 2,000 years ago.
Now I ask you: How the hell do you suppose we were able to survive these tens of thousands of years without the services of Moses or Christ???
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
yes, teh bibel is the garlic to christians that the garlic is to drakuleeah. Cuz we atheistical types and we agnostical types are sooooo teh sinnerzzzs. Like, I read teh bibel, and it was just so like… you know? Like whatev. I mean, OMG, whatev.
I myself learned my Christian mythology from the first to the third grades, which I spent in a Missouri Synod Lutheran school.
I myself, while I have not read much of the Bible, have read a lot about it through secondary sources. I have learned about a lot of other things through secondary sources.
Using them saves time. Comparing them mentally with one another gradually helps a person build up a world view.
I have done the best I can to choose secondary sources that make sense and appear reliable since I want my world view to reflect reality as much as possible.
Even so, I can never be sure whether I am completely right or not. Nobody can. Partial ignorance is part of the human condition.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
Well, they have the bible on computers now, so you can read it without touching it… darn that internet.. ;)
Oh, get over it.
The FSM is a friend to all Atheists and worthy of praise.
Christianity, because of its popularity, casts a broad shadow. In Western society, it comes under criticism in its influences more only because its influences are more apparent due to that popularity. If it were feasible to “not believe” in peace, many would gladly do so, but as religious people continue to attempt to use government to enshrine their principles above others into the law, the tension is not likely to soon dissipate.
I know, for myself, Christianity would be nothing greater than a curiosity perhaps worthy of study but not great emotion, if its manifestations were not so aggressive and insidious. But as it is, many Christians manage to irritate me into pushing back.
On an entirely different note, as Chesterton once pointed out, if you can’t laugh about your religion, it’s time to get a new religion. He was a Christian, it should be noted.
We don’t heap contempt, disdain and ridicule upon The Flying Spaghetti Monster because if we did then statues of His Mother would weep spaghetti sauce tears and we would all ache in our hearts.
Daniel Florien, apparently after being at least a somewhat militant Christian, realized he was deceived and became a militant atheist, though not really an abusive one. I find him to be admirably modest and polite. He carries his religious and philosophical knowledge very gracefully!
Many people like him have suffered under various kinds of Christian tyranny and feel they have been psychologically raped by the religion, such as gay people like me. You can’t expect these victims of rape to have any great affection for their rapists. That is why I am often much less polite than Daniel.
Nobody is going to heap disdain and ridicule on the flying spaghetti monster because no one takes this monster seriously, the way no one takes the great pumpkin seriously.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
Fantastic Points, CD. :)
Atheists who devote so much of their time to the discussion of things they claim not to believe instead come across, to me, as people trying to convince themselves the truly don’t believe.
Even though there are literally millions on earth who believe in him, I don’t devote a single minute of time discussing with those of like mind the non-existence of Santa Claus, for example. But if I DID have a feeling in the back of my mind that Santa just might possibly be real, yet I didn’t want to believe it, I just might create discussions such as this one… to surround myself with other people who weren’t quite sure and to make me feel a little better.
Look, Coram Deo, Christianity has caused a lot of people a hell of a lot of misery through the centuries.
Christians are still politically strong in the United States, and among many people it is a taboo to criticize them either for their superstitious belief system or for the way they make so many people miserable.
They diss me a lot because I am gay. Since they diss me, I feel completely free do diss them back! I find them utterly detestable and wish they would all go fuck themselves!
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say yes, the reason I visit this blog so often is that I am trying to convince myself that god doesn’t exist — I’m trying really hard to dispel the illusion. I know rationally that he almost surely doesn’t exist, but I feel I have to beat him away with a stick. I still have very powerful dreams about religion, I still have an impulse to ‘thank’ someone for my existence, and I still find myself slipping into the ‘god of the gaps’ mindset.
However, I know that this isn’t because god is calling me back, or because my experience truly points to the existence of a creator, it’s because of my religious inculcation as youth, or because humans are by default, biologically, superstitious, as some other animals have been demonstrated to be. It’s a malfunction of brain wiring, and it results in a perception that belies reality. Like an optical illusion, by brain tells me something my rational mind has trouble resolving. But whether it’s a reflex reaction from brainwashing, or a biological handicap, it’s an obstacle and I am trying to surmount it.
So yes, I do dedicate a lot of time to writing and reading about something I don’t believe in. Yes, it’s obsessive. Yes, there are arguably better uses of my time. Yes, it’s just rehearsing the arguments. But this is very important to my growth as an individual. I consider this site and my own blog a form of therapy, like AA. Atheists Anonymous.
Constructing a viable identity for myself as an atheist is part of the healing process. It may at times be viciously anti-theist as you say, but there’s a lot at stake so the revolution is going to be a bloody one. Still, I think it’s a necessary step to building confidence in my beliefs, and to find a new purpose for my life.
There, it’s out.
Your point doesn’t seem well made to me. You seem to assume that all US citizens are christians who take advantage of such holidays without considering that there is a significant proportion of our population that could give a sh*t about easter. Or any other christian holiday for that matter.
I love my family and friends.
I love them to a degree that when i feel like meeting up with them.. i make the time to meet up with them.
I don’t need some day that was picked by a church because of some religion to suddenly have the urge to meet up with my family.
To be honest.. especially christmas i find disgusting.
I really don’t need any excuse to stuff myself on any other day and i sure as hell (pun intended) don’t need some fat made up guy.. or some religion i don’t support to tell me that this 1 day i need to think about my family and friends.. and grandma who i normally wouldn’t bother to visit but i should right now because it’s christmas and otherwise i would be a horrid person.
screw that.
You really need to read the About Me section…cause you’ll find it ain’t about me.
Still, you need to get over it…and yourself.
Actually, it’s “unthinking lightweights” who fail to recognize how Christianity “colonized” local holidays and such so as to appeal to the locals. Ever noticed that Easter is mentioned in the book of Acts, long before the church EVER began celebrating Easter in the way it grew to? Ever wondered why that is?
And also, if your imaginary sky friend is so all powerful, then why did it need a blood sacrifice to “appease” it’s wrath? Seems kind of…stupid, don’t'cha think?
For your good use of ridicule, you win a chocolate cross.
“Sorry I get all mean around Easter…”
Apparently, so did the imaginary sky-friend. Good Friday? Not if your name was Jesus!
The Baptist church down the street from me is having an Easter egg hunt tomorrow…as I passed by the church, I wondered, “What the hell does an Easter egg have to do with the supposed resurrection of their lord, savior, and founder?”
God had a snappy new idea — I’ll appease Me by killing Me then those foolish atheists will really, really look like unthinking lightweights.
Yeah, you’re right. One reason why Christmas occurs on December 25th is because the Roman Saturnalia was celebrated at that time in winter.
Celebrating Christ’s birth at this time helped Christians blend in with Roman society.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
Easter eggs have nothing to do with resurrection of Jesus, um but I do know that Easter has a large attendence and parents tend to look for fun things for their kids to do. So there really is reason behind the madness. Even in church.
As they say in the Golden Shower Christian Church, it is much better to be pissed ON than to be pissed OFF.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
So what is your schtick, you became an atheist and thought that was an excuse to go around pissing people off for cheap immature laughs? Grow up, pal
A fair point.
Here’s the problem with that: the church down the street from me held their eggling ceremony today. Now, I really don’t see the point.
Chocolate is chocolate..
It’s cheaper when it comes in bars than once a year in stupid eggs :)
Easy for you to say. You have access to continental chocolate, cheap. We poor Americans have to put up with substandard chocolate most of the time.
Never say an unkind word about the Cadbury Mini Eggs!
Easier to eat than a bar, and tasty as tasty things get.
True and quite unfortunate.
Lol. Yes… poor Americans.
Just two words… Swiss Chocolate
Yes, I know, I’m mean :D
Have you guys tried Belgian Chocolate? Its awesome!
This joke shouldn’t be that funny… But you know, it is.
So Jesus Christ walks into a hotel, slaps four nails on the counter and asks “Could you put me up for the night?”
Thank you very much. Try the veal … I’m here all week …
No. I believe his last words were, “Aw, fuck!”
Some U.S. senator once said that if the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ, it was good enough for him.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
Yeah! Don’t you be dissing the FSM – may his noodly appendage touch you!
So you’re saying all muslims should convert immediately then?
Yeah, but he wasn’t a real Christian.
Or a pope on a rope soap…
Roger– well if heaven is going to be populated by these people, then let us fun people throw a big party in hell!!!
;)
I love the way your veiled threats do nothing to shake my disbelief in God/s, and if what you mean by ’some of the stuff I’ve read here’ is LOGIC and RATIONALITY, I’m inclined to agree with you. Such an impossible being would suely explode if forced to confront the illogicality(sp?) and improbability of its own existence. (Hopefully) Showering us with Cadbur/Lindt/Red Tulip dark chocolate bunnies!!
so…so… you are not going to my heaven. It’s stale beer and strippers with STD’s for you!
LRA, I don’t waste my time trying to bring evidence to people who have the mindset of rejecting God at any cost. When and if any of you will see the need for God, only then will you find real truth.
You already reject the most obvious evidence – creation of man, heavens and the earth! So if you reject the obvious, what’s going to make me think you’ll accept anything else?
But just in case any of you are open to finding the truth about the bible, Jesus Christ and the Father, feel free to check out this site:
http://www.tektonics.org/
I’m sure teleprompter.
Christ’s resurrection is the stamp to my faith. There is just too much evidence that He’s alive to make me doubt otherwise.
You all prove that Christ didn’t raise from the dead, then my faith truly has been in vain and I’d stop believing in a heartbeat!
The existence of matter in *no* way necessitates the existence of a god. But let’s say for the sake argument that it did. Can you now tell me how the existence of matter necessitates your *specific brand* of god?
Carlotta reccommends tektonics.org. Here is an especially stoopid article from that website comparing Japanese culture to Christianity:
http://www.tektonics.org/af/culturegram.html
Here is a tantalizing clip of the stoopidity:
“On a TheologyWeb discussion thread I wanted to illustrate to a debate partner how honor was valued in the ancient Biblical world. Knowing that honor was likewise valued in modern Japanese culture the same way (in contrast to how it is viewed in modern American culture) I searched for and found an invaluable article apparently by one Phil VanAuken at Baylor University. For proper credit the article in full was found here, but that is now a dead link. An item here in PDF format appears to be the same thing.
In looking over VanAuken’s work I realized that some of the explanations he gave of Japanese custom and culture match very closely the sort we have given here in explaining Biblical passages. ”
And also this *enlightening* tid bit:
“If all the Japanese in Japan were lined up and asked to describe Americans and other Westerners in one word, the majority would probably come up with “selfish.” The reason for this is simple enough. The Japanese were conditioned for centuries to look upon independent, individualistic behavior—the hallmark of Americans and many other Westerners—as selfish, confrontational and disruptive. Outsiders are perceived as barbarians because they don’t conform to cultural mandates and because no loyalty is owed to them. Independence is a social stigma; interdependence brings identity, acceptance, security, and a sense of purpose. Bingo. Think of how many times we have seen Skeptics violate this one with their selfish demands that the Biblical text conform to THEIR wishes. Think how “selfish, confrontational and disruptive” applies to certain “fundamentalist atheists” we know.”
That’s because you know you can’t.
Quoting from your chosen mythology to people who don’t share it is stupid.
Carlotta’s “Reasoning!”
“Allah didn’t do that.
Buddha didn’t do that.
No one else did that.”
Well, Dionysus did that. And so did Persephone. And so did Osiris…
http://www.livescience.com/history/090409-bad-resurrection-myths.html
You moron, don’t you know that Muslims worship the same frikkin’ “God” and that “Allah” is the Arabic word for “God”?? Geez. And you can blather on and on and, apparently, ON about sin and what not, but you never explain why an allegedly omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent “god” NEEDED to incarnate itself into the form of a human, get it’s ass royally kicked, just so it could get up out of a tomb and then, all of a sudden, this “god” now likes all of humanity–just so long as all of humankind (with its diverse religions which all claim forms of divine revelation) says that this particular, local religious myth is completely true.
Punishing the innocent for the sins of the guilty isn’t justice.
A man was convicted of murder. The laws of the state demanded a life sentence, without the possibility of parole. But the judge was merciful, and he knew that the man had repented of his crime. So the judge ordered himself to be put behind bars for life, and for the man to be set free. The judge was therefore laughed out of court, stripped of his law license, and thrown into a mental hospital, for he had finally snapped.
@Coram Deo: You are one profoundly deluded dude.
Not only that you are almost astonishingly arrogant in the way you proclaim your sect is absolutely correct and all others are sinful.
Nothing but regurgitated fundie nonsense – learn to think for yourself some day.
Look, Coram Nihilo, this religious boilerplate of yours…
“Biblical Christianity is the one pure and true religion which is based not upon what men do for their “god”, or for other men, or for themselves, but rather is based upon what God has done for men. God Almighty miraculously took on human flesh and came into the world in the person of Jesus Christ, the second Adam, to live the perfect life that God demands of all people everywhere. In doing this Christ fulfilled all the obligations of God as revealed in the Holy Bible, thus being fully and totally righteous in and of Himself, something no other human being could ever have done.”
…is nothing more than mythology. It is no more valid than the mythological belief systems of other religions, which you no doubt would reject as false. But really, there is no way of identifying “true” religious belief systems from “false” ones, so all of them come down to being nothing more than incoherent and at times utterly mad ravings.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
I’m not sure about Allah, as I have not taken the time to sincerely research this religion.
However, I can say that you are quite incorrect in your following statement:
“Buddha didn’t do that. No one else did that.”
Buddha, Krishna, and Lao-tzu were all written to be of miraculous births under extraordinary conditions.
Buddha DID do that because his birth was considered from the God Brahma. Brahma, in the Indian religions represents the one omnipotent and omniscient being. Siddhartha’s (Buddha) mother had a dream of a white elephant entering her womb holding a lotus flower. In her culture, this white elephant and lotus represented gifts from heaven being pure, powerful and knowledgeable.
Krishna was also born under extraordinary circumstances. His parents, Queen Devaki and King Vasudev had been imprisoned by his mother’s brother, King Kansa. Kansa was an evil man who had usurped the crown and imprisoned his family. A voice had told him that Devaki’s eight child would be a boy child who would destroy him. So, Kansa had killed each of Devaki’s children as they had been born. But at the birth of the eighth child, Lord Vishnu appeared in the prison, summoned a messenger to take the child Krishna to Gokul and to bring back a girl child who had been born with the spirit of Vishnu. The messenger took the baby Krishna and faced obstacles that are very similar to Christian ones…water parting and sleeping enemies.
Lao-Tzu was conceived after his mother gazed upon a falling star. He resided within his mother’s womb for the next sixty-two years and was supposedly born an old man, already wise and learned.
Obviously I know a bit more about Hinduism as this is what I research the most, however, each religion seems to have a commonality with Christianity and most of these were from writings pre-Christ. The Bhagavad Gita was written between the 5th and the 2nd century BC.
So, here are my points. One, you say that the Christian God is the “One True and Living God of the Holy Bible”. But my question would be, how can this be so if there had been no mention of him previous to the Jewish faith and birth of Christ? Judaism itself is still a young religion when taken into consideration of the other entire world religions? Is it possible that all the worlds’ religions are only speaking their version of God and Belief as they understand it even if it is from the same God? If I showed you the color yellow, you would call it yellow and someone in another country may call it mustard. Heck, I might even call it an egg yolk.
Another point would be, for centuries man has taken what he knows and learns and hands it down to the next generation. How certain are you that the stories of Christ are any more real than any of the other stories told? Because you believe the Bible? Because the Bible is the word of God? Other religions claim this also and their texts are much older. Why are they not right? Is it because you have faith? Do other religions or beliefs not have their right to faith?
If I am to believe that God parted the Red see, why am I not to believe that waters were parted for Lord Krishna as he was spirited away to safety?
I am not trying to say that one religion is more right than the other. What I am trying to say is that everyone has his or her own path to redemption (or lack thereof). If someone chooses to follow Brahma over Buddha and Buddha over Allah or Allah over Jehovah or Jehovah over God or God over Brahma….then who are you so say it is wrong? Who are you to say, with absolute and positive proof, that the Christian God is the only God? As far as I know, Christianity has no more proof than any other religion can provide.
So I have this wonderful and miraculous idea…how about instead of talking as if YOUR God is the only God and MY God doesn’t matter/exist, why don’t you respect my belief as I respect yours and we all be free to go on to the next life or heaven/nirvana (or not at all if you believe that death is the end)?
And also, please don’t come back preaching to me that my soul can only be saved through the salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ. I love Jesus, I really do. I respect him and believe his teachings are beautiful. And I believe that he might possibly have been an incarnation of God on earth. Do I believe that he was the only incarnation? Nope. What I do believe is that God, in whatever form he/she takes, wants us all to find our way to him. I believe that it is man’s own prejudice that has imposed what are the right way and the wrong way to God.
And once again, I’m REALLY glad that this post was started. I like the fact that we can poke fun at and point out the inconsistency’s of so called devout Christians. I’m fairly certain that Jesus did not rise from the grave in order that children the world over would hunt for eggs and eat chocolate. If you are going to be devout, why practice these things? Why not just go to church and teach your children why that day is special, rather than luring them with gimmicks, smoke and mirrors?
Also…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection
yeah but those people never actually existed! I mean- look at those funny names!
Thank you for a thought out and non-condescending post.
Believers and skeptics also have much more in common than things they disagree on.
Oxytocin is love.
I am so sad on resurrection day. I didn’t know that when I love my wife it was not me but God. I need help.
So is P.F. Chang’s Great Wall of Chocolate cake with a pint of vanilla ice cream from Marble Slab Creamery, but you don’t see me worshipping it. At least with the cake, it’s something that I can see, smell and taste. Repeatedly.
Lra:
Can you now tell me how the existence of matter necessitates your *specific brand* of god?
In my mind, there is such intrinsic design of the *matter* that you speak of, that it necessitates an intelligent designer.
The things that exist are not mere *blobs* of mindless creation, but as we can see, things that are quite operable.
It is just mind boggling for anyone to deny God when there is so much that points to His existence. I understand why the bible is so harsh on atheists:
With their ever-ending need to trash God and depend upon their own minds (pride):
Yes, those scriptures really come to light here on this blog.
You didn’t answer the question. I said that, for argument’s sake, let’s say there is a god as evidenced by the presence of matter. How is this god the christian god?
Lra:
You didn’t answer the question. I said that, for argument’s sake, let’s say there is a god as evidenced by the presence of matter. How is this god the christian god?
There is only one God, and the God who created the heavens and the earth IS the Christian God.
In other words, if someone was someplace where there’s no bible and no one to tell them about Jesus, then exercising faith in this “creator” would be the same as a Christian believing in God through Jesus Christ. This person would be considered “saved” (from hell).
So according to scripture, man is without excuse because creation attest to God’s invisible qualities! The faith used to believe in creation is equal to the *Christian God.*
Carlotta-
Then let’s stop teaching christianity immediately! This way, everyone can go to heaven!!!
AMEN (sorry I meant I AGREE)!!!
Well, here’s my reason for discussing it:
I live in Texas, where excellence in science standards is under attack by the religious right (specifically by the Discovery Institute). As I am a scientist and a certified teacher in this state, I have a vested interest in this. I am also a former christian. I hope to share scientific knowledge with people of faith so as to show them how absurd their claims often are. I am hoping that the more fundamentalist believers will actually educate themselves so that they will stop attacking science.
If you take the time and effort to hold respectful dialogue with many skeptics, you will find that this is not the case in general.
George Bush didn’t pray to Santa before unleashing shock and awe. Santa inspired no one to fly planes into buildings. Etc., etc., etc. Many of us on this site are former Christians who honestly believe that fundamentalist, authoritarian or reason resisting organizations and people are or can too easily become dangerous.
Also, on a personal level, my life is much better since I gave up belief in the silly, antiquated mythologies and many of the posters here share similar connecting backgrounds.
“Then why continue to discuss such things?”
Don’t you want to feel a little better as you say below?
“I just might create discussions such as this one… to surround myself with other people who weren’t quite sure and to make me feel a little better.”
Atheists would not have a blog against this unless they feel the need to stop this religious nuts madness that is trying to convert us all.
There is nothing wrong if you believe in a god and I do not, as long as you do not try to convert us.
Look at the US in Iraq! This is a crusade against Islam!
It is all about Christians fighting against the Islam, but the media has been manipulated in such a way and the word terrorism has been introduced to hide the fact that Christians started an ilegal war agains other people that are none-Christians. Yes Bush was a creationist!
The other thing is that these creationists are attacking science in the US and are tring to do this all over the world too. Throwing any progress to the dark ages.
Look at what the Taliban did a few years ago, distroying all evidence about things that are against god.
The creationists are doing the same thing, slowly erroding any science, forcing their ideas on young people, starting to brainwash, at this is why atheists starts these blogs to fight back extremism that are creeping into Christian believes.
These blos is no fight agains god or denial against god but a trial to stop religious extermism before it is too late!
If the world will end, then it is probably a religious nut with his finger on the nuclear power button believing that pushing is needed because he hear this voice from god telling him to push it.
Blockquote>@Donny Pauling
Atheists who devote so much of their time to the discussion of things they claim not to believe instead come across, to me, as people trying to convince themselves the truly don’t believe.
Bullshit.
They discuss things and religious nuts that are tragically too real.
Like christians trying to control people who don’t share the christian delusions and beliefs. They use laws to make other people’s choices illegal, protests, verbal attacks (the ones who pose with their offspring can be some of the nastiest for some reason.)
christians who come on to an atheist site posting all their beliefs and trying to change others’ minds come across to me as protesting too much, desperately trying to convince themselves that their chosen beliefs and mythology are real.
Christians who devote so much time to the discussion of things they claim to believe instead come across, to me, as people trying to convince themselves they truly do believe. That is why Christians are often told to surround themselves with other Christians – so that they may not be lead astray by those who do not believe.
Did you ever consider that there are millions who believe in Santa Claus but he does not exist and that could also be extended to the existence of God, that there are millions who believe in the existence of God and that He may also not exist.
This is a blog that belongs to an Atheist. Just like Christians who get together and talk about Jesus and all that other delusional garbage, we Atheist like to get together and talk about things. If you condemn on, you also condemn the other.
Why “shouldn’t be” this joke funny. We should ged rid of the notion that religion is in any way more “sacred” than anything else. We can, shall, and will, ridicule the heck out of any character in the bible, along with incompetent politicians, embarrassing celebs, and all the other real or fictitious characters we happen to share our lifetime with.
@godhatesprotesters: ROFLMAO. That was hilarious!
Reading you guys’ and gals’ comments: Priceless!!!1oneoneeleven1
Woah, you guys certainly go ballistic. I’ve not been around here long enough, but does that happen on every xtian holiday? If that is, I so can’t wait for pentecost and x-mas…
LRA,
Science and Christianity do not conflict. I suggest reading What’s So Great About Christianity? by Stanford University’s Dinesh D’Souza. I’d also recommend reading this essay (which happens to be written by a Christian):
http://theistic-evolution.com/theisticevolution.html
In D’Souza’s book he gives scientific evidence for why God exists… and MUST exist. Only the ignorant think it’s God VS Science. Reality is God AND Science. In fact, for a Creator to exist, the laws of the Universe must have been put in place by that creator, therefore science is an endeavor into better understanding of how God put things into place.
Then why continue to discuss such things? Once I realized Santa did not exist, I never once entered discussion groups with others who had likewise given up a belief in Santa.
Lots of people pray. Lots of people believe in God. Few people fly planes into buildings. When the vast majority of those who believe in God begin killing in His name, then we’ll know the problem lies in a belief in God. Until that time, those of us who think such things through will realize that some people kill because they want to kill. They’ll use whatever excuse they find convenient to do so. Pol Pot didn’t need God to justify his actions. Stalin. Mao. Hitler. None of these men needed God to be bad people. Some people are just… bad, and again, use whatever excuse they deem necessary to explain their actions.
If 80% of the adult population believed in Santa, based their lives on it, and told people who didn’t believe in Santa that they were going to hell — well, I gather you’d speak out about it, too. Or if not you, somebody should!
Daniel, since for some reason I’m not able to hit “reply” to your comment, I’ll instead hit the reply button to my own and address your comment.
First of all, millions still believe in Santa. ;)
Secondly, 80% of the adult, thinking, mostly educated population believes in God because God does indeed exist. There is scientific evidence for this, and if you’d like find out about it begin with reading the aforementioned book recommendation (D’Souza) and go from there. I hardly think you’re honestly interested in such evidence, however. It’s much easier to simply deny and form discussions with others who similarly want to deny the truth… for whatever reasons you may have. For me, I denied God’s existence because I was repulsed by the hypocrisy I’d witnessed from those claiming to follow Him. After 9 years of denial, I could finally realized my problem was not with God but with those claiming to represent Him. Once that was straightened out I could no longer deny overwhelming evidence of His existence.
Do you ever discuss your beliefs with like minded Christians? Everyone likes community.
And I didn’t suggest that only believers in gods commit atrocities.
Donny, do you ever like to discuss things with like-minded Christians? Everyone needs community. And like-minded people talk about things they have in common.
I didn’t suggest that only believers commit atrocities.
Question-I-Thority,
It makes perfect sense to discuss something one believes to be true with like minded people. It doesn’t make sense, at least not to me, to sit around discussing things that one doesn’t even believe exists.
To each his (or her) own, I guess…
After proclaiming He didn’t exist, I was relieved to discover God does indeed exist after all. We humans sometimes are so repulsed by people that we try to do or believe the exact opposite of what those who repulse us do or believe. If that is the case for you, I hope you come to realize that you’re relationship to/with God does not have a single thing to do with any person in your life that you’ve grown to despise. You and God are you and God. Period.
When I took off the blinders of hatred towards hypocrites, I started looking at evidence I’d never before considered. Before that I’d always had an attitude that went something like, “if ‘those people’ believe in God, I want no part of it!” After reading as much material as I could get my hands on, both from prominent atheists and numerous sources of religious thought, I found overwhelming evidence FOR God. Some might not label Him “God”, but a Creator is not something I can discount.
Anyway… I’m rambling. Time to go feed my Mastiffs.
The bible was written by illiterate arabs back when they thought the earth was flat. Any 12 year old today knows incredibly more about the universe than the wisest man of biblical times.
Religion could not possibly be started today. Can you imagine a woman walking into any major hospital anywhere in the world today and explaining that she was a pregnant virgin and that she was carrying the child of a man or spirit in the sky.
“Code 69. Get someone down here from Psyche, STAT!”
“Once I realized Santa did not exist, I never once entered discussion groups with others who had likewise given up a belief in Santa”
I did. Well, i mean, once I realized Santa did not exist I had to tell to my classmates, even if my parents asked me not to tell them. That’s the way most of the children knew that santa is not real. And some of those little kids cried when the ilusion was lost.
Should I go on with the analogy?
“Secondly, 80% of the adult, thinking, mostly educated population believes in God because God does indeed exist. ”
Evidence please.
Stupid christians, for one.
Stupid christians who try to force their beliefs on others and force how others live, for another.
Unfortunately they’re more real than Santa.
More evil, too. (Santa doesn’t force anything on people or cause the Dark Ages.)
Oooh, I smell a “no-true-christian”. Even if it was another religious nut in that case.
But didn’t they do so anyway?
Christian beliefs work so *well* for that!
The great divide.
Well, I read the article and I found many things in it that I have no problem with. Except the part about miracles.
Why would God perform miracles when (as this guy claims) his creation was done in accordance with the laws of physics, biology, etc.? Why not just poof the world into existence as a gigantic miracle?
Further, if Genesis can be interpreted as metaphorical, then why not the central tenet of your faith– the death and resurrection of Jesus?
Perhaps you could submit a book review of D’Souza’s book to Daniel. I don’t remember to what extent this blog has discussed D’Sousa in the past but over at Pharyngula there are many threads on his writings and videos.
“All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.” Albert Einstein.
Mais vraiment, comme Laplace, nous n’avons pas besoin de l’hypothèse que Dieu existe pour expliquer l’univers. L’existence ou l’absence de l’existence de Dieu est, tout simplement, superflu pour expliquer scientifiquement la nature de l’univers.
But really, like Laplace, we have no need for the hypothesis that God exists to explain the universe. The existence or absence of existence of God is, quite simply, superfluous for scientifically explaining the nature of the universe.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
And here is this message in Interlingua:
Ma vermente, como Laplace, nos non ha besonio del hypothese que Deo existe pro explicar le universo. Le existentia o absentia de existentia de Deo, tout simplement, es superflue pro explicar scientificamente le natura del universo.
Recommending a book that shows that science supports Christianity that is written by a Roman Catholic is a little bit stupid, don’t you think? That is like the idiot in Kansas who has the dinosaurs tramping around with man, in the same period of time when science does not support that as having happened. It is well known that religion often contorts things so as to make science appear as if it is supporting religion. The fact of the matter is that science does not support God having created the earth, it does not support the flood, nor many of the other things that religion says happened. Only a book by a Christian will make it appear that science supports it. That is because the writer is biased and will write from a Christian perspective. You want to believe such tripe, be my guest. I read books by Christians as well as other people and there is no way that science supports religion.
Hitler was not a Christian. In his book he wrote that he professed such things to sway the masses.
I’ve met Muslims who enjoyed a good Muhammad joke.
The ones with the humordectomy are the ones that somehow end up controlling countries and talk on the Evening News. They should look to that, lest the world be convinced that Islam is where humor goes to die.
What a witty reply, Tabbie. I’m speechless… totally unarmed. You win. Congratulations.
;)
It’s only childish if you don’t bother to read deeper, because you’re caught up in the normative impulse to “be offended”. If you like, this is a criticism of the disjoint in most people’s minds between this being a holiday of candy and bunnies and a holiday predicated on the story of a brutal and gruesome murder. People tend to love the first and ignore the second, and the *joke* is that if you actually combine them, you come up with a hideous sort of dissonance. Humor is about dissonance, y’know. It’s cheap and easy to dismiss something as childish so the point underlying doesn’t have to be faced.
Jesus loved to point out things in uncomfortable ways. One of his consistent points was that people get wrapped up in the clothes of sanctimony and piety without actually thinking about what holiness or piety is. He hung out with a bad crowd, made fun of the edifice of religion in his day.
People dislike atheists because they’re told to, or because they’ve had a bad experience with one and then generalize inappropriately, much as theists are disliked primarily because of atheists’ particular experiences with them.
As a fellow Rhode Islander, I say nobody should underestimate us on account of our size. We can take on Gods Incarnate, and of course the British. Don’ mess.
The bible was written by illiterate arabs back when they thought the earth was flat. Any 12 year old today knows incredibly more about the universe than the wisest man of biblical times.
Religion could not possibly be started today. Can you imagine a woman walking into any major hospital anywhere in the world today and explaining that she was a pregnant virgin and that she was carrying the child of a man or spirit in the sky.
“Code 69. Get someone down here from Psyche, STAT!”
How is pointing out that candy eggs have little to do with the murder and resurrection of Jesus “belittling beliefs”? The joke is about juxtaposing two very different meanings for the holiday and showing that they don’t mix easily.
I find that Christians often get whiny when Atheists point out things that are in conflict within their beliefs. Much of the celebrations that center around Christmas and Easter are taken from the pagan religions. Even the Catholic saints is an offshoot of pagan religions. If you cannot look at your religion and recognize the ridiculousness of mixing pagan religion celebrations with Christianity or other religion without getting all upset and whiny about it, lashing out at those pointing out the obvious, then you have a problem.
In the end, you behavior has become representative of most Christians that I know who cannot defend their practice but instead have to insult the Atheist. Religion needs to lose the sacredness that has surrounded it to protect it from criticism. Only then will religious people realize that what they have been following really is irrational.
I was in a conversation with a friend who is a Christian who believes that one must be Christian in order to become enlightened. True enlightenment occurs when you put aside the irrational, only accept that which is rational. With that in mind, Christians will never become enlightened because believing in something that cannot be proven to exist is irrational.
Have a nice pagan holiday celebration Marsha.
I’m reminded of Good Morning Viet Nam where the radio station lieutenant went about defining appropriate (h)umor.
I’m sorry that joking about ideas you hold offends you. I’m sorry that you can’t step back or give yourself a little distance from your belief system and see that chocolate bunnies, eggs and crosses is a nonsensical way to celebrate Jesus and is quite funny. I’m sorry that you are probably acting out of an authoritarian instinct.
Whenever a christian tells me I “will fry”, I break out in a fit of laughter. I’m not sure which I find funnier, the statement or that they believe it.
Either way. HAhahaha
Basically, marsha’s comment was a bunch of “WAAAAAH” with a side of “Nyah!”
Wow, a sermon. About a “personal encounter” with a non-existent spook and his crazy bloodlust. Never heard THAT before. Why do these godbots act as though atheists have no knowledge of Christianity? In many cases, we know their religion better than they do (as evidenced by the resolute refusal to rely solely on preacherisms and sermonic pablum).
Greg – in what way is atheism a religion?
Think about what religion is before answering the question.
Atheists have only one quality in common – they do not accept the existance of god(s).
Thallus lived and worked in Rome. Christians have often labeled him as a Samaritan although he was not. Any thing that he reported would have been hearsay, not through his eyes only. He was not present at the crucifixion.
It was common back then to believe that solar eclipses and earthquakes marked the death of a king. Oftentimes, the event may have occurred within the year of the king’s death but not necessarily at the time of death. Additionally, it was a full moon at the time that Jesus was said to be crucified. Thus, an eclipse and darkness were unlikely to occur.
Much of what is known about Thallus has been derived from Christian apologetics who invented facts about him in order to make his comments sound credible in accordance to the crucifixion. The majority of his writings have been lost. It is estimated that the Histories or compendium in which he wrote about the darkness was written anywhere between 28 to 92 AD. It is believed that the date 92 AD is most accurate in which case one has to ask why he waited so long. By 92 AD, Christianity had a large enough influence that it would possibly influence the writings of a great many historians, especially if their writings are based upon hearsay.
Please note that Constantine did embrace it “for political reasons” not because he believed in it. He embraced it because he saw it as being powerful and a way to unit the people. Power does not mean that it is true.
Look, gregwirths, the first part of what you say is nothing more than mythological bullshit. It is extremely unlikely, for example that “there was a miraculous darkness covering the face of the earth on Passover 32 A.D.”
It is only through historical accident that Christianity became ascendant in the Mediterranean area by the time Constantine became emperor. Quite probably, he made a cold calculation that to consolidate his political power, he could not BEAT the Christians, so he decided to JOIN them.
By the way, atheism is not a religion. Atheists deny the validity of all religions and insist that they are all based on nothing more than idiotic superstition.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
Amen to that!
no matches required for the cake, ouch
No, dear, you have to prove affirmatively that Christ “rose” from the dead. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And no, Josephus isn’t a credible source, as his writings merely note that Jesus existed and had a following.
Carlotta, there is far more evidence that Santa Claus is real since he has been observed by many people, people actually have talked to him, there are video proof, even audio proof.
There is a lot of evidence that Dark Vader exists, since we have many many books created by many different writers that all point to this one guy Dark Vader.
There is also a god called Zeus that lives on a Mountain. Here too there are many references to this.
We don’t deny god or jezus, we just experience god and jezus as realistisc as Dark Vader, Zeus and Santa Clause.
For us it is very funny to see people actually pray to god, it is as funny as if you would see someone pray to Darth Vader and have 2 or 3 people in Jedi ornments to come at your door and want to talk about the Force and the deliverance of the dark side pointing to a book called “a new hope”.
Bullshit. You have none.
If you had it, you would have presented it. No, circular reasoning, quoting your chosen mythology, and blather don’t count.
YOU have to prove any smidgen of evidence that he did. The burden of proof is on YOU. There are people who would believe if you had anything believable. But you don’t. Since it’s your choice to believe in this fabricated story, and it’s not true, you can’t. That’s what is driving you nuts.
I’m stealing that. Brilliant! ^_^
hi ya annabelle~
Yeah, I’m having a riot on this website and feel almost guilty about it. I’m currently posting over there with some new found buds on the Christian Cliche and the Evil God thread, and because of that have almost wasted an entire week of vacation- but it’s been worth it, as being somewhat new to atheism, I’ve had no one to bounce my ideas off of (the pity of having been surrounded by xtians only my whole life).
Oh yeah- and that Vatican thing- oh hun- they know way more than they are telling, and that’s why they are not telling.
So, gotta go, but here’s something I need to disclose, although it is nothing- I’m a fred that’s a girl. Seinfeld moment: “not that it matters” (and have always been a girl…not that it matters).
Ciao~
“any person of intelligence can clearly see the inconsistencies and contradictions amongst the ‘word of God.’”
Please dish a few…list one or two….
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Well we are insulting your imaginary god and jesus, and laughing at the absurdity of the biblical fairytale.
But we are not insulting you, only trying to point out how delusional you fanciful religion is.
see Daniel’s Top Posts on the right side on the home page. Read it all (a chore, but good fun) or scroll on down to the end to join what’s currently going on.
Your concern is noted…and stupid.
If you met a man, who only ever ate apples, and you extolled the virtues of oranges to this man, he may not be convinced that oranges are a better way to go. After all, he knows his apples, and he loves his apples. However, after that conversation, he is aware that oranges exist and that someone else thinks they are great. That knowledge then allows him to consider a future choice about whether he would like to explore oranges, if he wanted to.
If he never had someone tell him about the oranges, and all he ever bought were apples, he would never have that choice to expand his horizons.
—————
Most of the time people hold their ideas tightly; this is what makes them beliefs. They have to be held tightly enough to inform actions in an uncertain world. So, of course most conversations are not going to cause much change in them. Every once in a while, however, someone comes upon something–and it can be from a conversation, or even an offhand remark–that has resonance. It causes a re-examination of the assumptions behind the beliefs, perhaps cause the belief to be held less tightly. In these moments knowing that there are other beliefs that could be held, that are held by others, is knowledge important to working through whether to keep one’s own.
My replies haven’t been so eloquent, lol, yet they did have a point. I tend to be a seeker of peace, and I was reacting in my own small way to some of the utterly senseless bickering I saw taking place here. That being said, I do enjoy a good debate, so I can’t say it’s all bad. Many of the comments were valid. Many were funny. Some were just dumb. Some were simply beating a dead horse with a stick.
I must concur with reformedfred’s assessment of Elemenope’s statement… …it’s perfect!
I feel what it all boils down to is this: some believe, some don’t. Some will. Some won’t. Whatever the purpose of this blog may be, the purpose of this post was primarily humor and to expose the hypocrisy which seems to run rampant in most modern day Easter celebrations — a job well done. If you find this kind of humor funny, then laugh. If you don’t, then go away. Live and let live. Believe and feel what you will. Let others do the same.
I think many spiritual devotees do themselves a huge disservice by trying to cram their own beliefs down everyone else’s throat. Religious freedom must encompass everyone in order for it to encompass any of us individually.
Live. Laugh. Love. Cry. Feel angry. Feel happy. Feel sad. Feel scorn. Feel pride. It’s all good, but we must remember to allow others the same choices we wish to have for ourselves. Free will, freedom of choice and freedom of thought…all these things are priceless.
If you don’t like what I have to say, there are about a billion other blogs you can waste your time on.
Thanks. :)
I think he said what I was trying to say in a much more intelligent and articulate way. ;)
I discovered the Golden Shower Christian Church shortly after running across another church called the Golden West Christian Church.
The Golden Shower Christian Church was founded in San Francisco in 1969 by the Reverend I. M. A. Pischer, who believed that ongoing baptism is essential for spiritual renewal. His first book introducing the doctrine of his new church is “Christian Episstemology”–with two “s’s,” of course.
The sacramental beverage used by the Golden Shower Christian Church is not wine, but beer. People doing baptisms during Golden Shower Christian Church services will sometimes drink a whole six-pack of beer as they perform this sacred sacrament.
Some people in the Golden Shower Christian Church are so enthusiastic about baptism that they attend services once a day to get baptized.
About once a month, the Golden Shower Christian Church has Asshole Wednesday services, where communicants can be baptized by hot-beef injection.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
Oh, one other thing: The Golden Shower Christian Church does not observe Easter as a holiday. Instead it observes Pissover.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
… and you, apparently, know less than most …
Why so angry Roger? What is the alternative? Enough of the personal attacks. Take on the issue not the person.
Peace and Good,
Roger why do you always have to act like an ass? Seriously.
Stan,
True that many of us get our first thoughts of religion and religious training from our families and communities. That’s not true for everyone. Christianity did have a beginning.
There are many with high levels of education …maybe higher than your own…who believe in Christ and the death, burial and resurrection. Einstein, a non-practicing Jew, believed the miracles of the universe were too precise to give them to chance. He believed in intelligent design. I have friends that are MDs and PhDs who also believe. So knock of the self righteous higher education bit, it doesn’t wash.
One problem comes when “science” and the scientific method tries to rationalize a history. We don’t do that. It might be a bit like using a golf club as a baseball bat, wrong tool for the job. When we view the legitimacy of the scripture using the historical method it can help to clear a bit of the story. The Bible written by 40 different authors with little connection over 600 years is a pretty compelling argument. Considering the martyrs of the first century alone would be strong evidence of the influence Christ had on the world and those around him.
I don’t mind your disbelief. It’s not for me to make you believe. Just in case…
The Nicene Creed
NOTE: The notes that appear in small type on this page were written by James E. Kiefer, and originally posted to Christia.
The Nicene Creed is the most widely accepted and used brief statements of the Christian Faith. In liturgical churches, it is said every Sunday as part of the Liturgy. It is Common Ground to East Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, and many other Christian groups. Many groups that do not have a tradition of using it in their services nevertheless are committed to the doctrines it teaches.
(Someone may ask, “What about the Apostles’ Creed?” Traditionally, in the West, the Apostles’ Creed is used at Baptisms, and the Nicene Creed at the Eucharist [AKA the Mass, the Liturgy, the Lord's Supper, or the Holy Communion.] The East uses only the Nicene Creed.)
I here present the Nicene Creed in two English translations, The first is the traditional one, in use with minor variations since 1549, The second is a modern version, that of The Interdenominational Committee on Liturgical Texts. Notes and comment by [James E. Kiefer] follow.
Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again
according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Life,
who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
who with the Father and the Son together
is worshipped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
This creed was written by the Church in Alexandria in the 300’s. Alexandria was a center for learning and enlightenment. The Coptic Church traces it’s roots back to Mark the writer of the Gospel. I spent a month traveling Egypt with a Muslim friend no less, tracing religious sites and searching. There is one way, as far as I can tell.
As for your comments on the intelligence of the Arabs and the world in the 1st century. It has been said, by scientist, that the knowledge lost when the Arabs sacked Alexandria in 671AD accounted for a loss of mathematics, history, and science that has not yet been recovered. The oral tradition continues in much of the worlds cultures. There is a high level of importance placed upon sharing these histories accurately and continuously. You may also note that many of the key stories of the Bible are repeated in other ancient writings (The Flood Story).
If we can pause for a moment and listen for God or try to observe his work around us…it’s still there and he still speaks. I have seen the results of his works first hand and so have you.
Peace and Faith
The 10 commandments state: thou shall not kill. But the Israelites rape, plunder, and murder their way across the promised land.
though shall not murder, where’s the inconsistency?
You’d have to not acknowledge any day of the week if you used that logic – all of the English names for the days of the week are in honour of gods or goddesses (Tiu, Woden, Thor, Freya and possibly Saturn), or the sun and moon which were often either worshipped themselves or highly symbolic of gods or goddesses.
Naming those cultures don’t validate your point, as none of them are descended from the European traditions as modern western cultures are. It is entirely likely that had Christianity never entered Europe, any society descended from Europeans would still celebrate a spring festival. Australia might even, under those circumstances, be sensible and celebrate it in spring instead of autumn.
India:
“Holi is an ancient festival of India and was originally known as ‘Holika’. The festivals finds a detailed description in early religious works such as Jaimini’s Purvamimamsa-Sutras and Kathaka-Grhya-Sutras. Historians also believe that Holi was celebrated by all Aryans but more so in the Eastern part of India.
It is said that Holi existed several centuries before Christ. However, the meaning of the festival is believed to have changed over the years. Earlier it was a special rite performed by married women for the happiness and well-being of their families and the full moon (Raka) was worshiped.
Calculating the Day of Holi
There are two ways of reckoning a lunar month- ‘purnimanta’ and ‘amanta’. In the former, the first day starts after the full moon; and in the latter, after the new moon. Though the amanta reckoning is more common now, the purnimanta was very much in vogue in the earlier days.
According to this purnimanta reckoning, Phalguna purnima was the last day of the year and the new year heralding the Vasanta-ritu (with spring starting from next day). Thus the full moon festival of Holika gradually became a festival of merrymaking, announcing the commencement of the spring season. This perhaps explains the other names of this festival – Vasanta-Mahotsava and Kama-Mahotsava.”
Yeah, kinda spring festival, isn’t it?
(http://www.holifestival.org/history-of-holi.html)
China:
“Chinese New Year or Spring Festival is the most important of the traditional Chinese holidays. It is often called the Lunar New Year, especially by people in mainland China and Taiwan. The festival traditionally begins on the first day of the first month (Chinese: 正月; pinyin: zhēng yuè) in the Chinese calendar and ends on the 15th; this day is called Lantern Festival. Chinese New Year’s Eve is known as Chúxī. It literally means “Year-pass Eve”.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_New_Year
Japan:
The Hina Matsuri or doll festival takes place on March 3rd every year. Its origins go back to China which had the custom of making a doll for the transferral of bad luck and impurities from the person, and then putting the doll in a river and forever ridding oneself of them.
————————
The coming of the cherry blossoms (sakura) is one of the happiest events in Japan. First and foremost it heralds the coming of spring, which is a delight since winters in Japan are bone-chilling cold. They also have a deeper cultural significance since they fall to the ground and disappear in only a couple of weeks (and even sooner if the frequent rains wash them all off the trees), which echoes an ancient cultural belief in the short, transitory nature of youth and life itself.
In Exodus 20:13 the Lord commands, “Thou shall not kill.”
When reading the scriptures it is sometimes helpful to understand the language it was written in. The Old Testament is generally written in Hebrew. There are many good study guides to help you navigate the language differences. The language here speaks to “natural law” and is a reassertion of the law given to Noah in Gen 9:5-6. Just as in our language a difference is made between unlawful killing and killing during war or for the execution of laws. Just like we have today. Immoral killing (murder) is what the passage talks about.
The Israelites do war against the pagan populations in the scriptures. This is by God’s command. His instruction is generally explicit. When the early kings veered away from the will of God, Israel was punished. The captivity of the Israelites by their foes was one form of punishment.
A few closing thoughts in interpreting scripture:
1. Look at the writer and understand his background.
2. Who is the audience? Who did he write the book for specifically.
3. What was happening at the location of the events described? Geopolitical environment…
4. What were the cultural biases of the writer and the audience? This can be very helpful…at least it has been for me.
I hope this helps…
Peace and Blessings to you.
so you are saying that because a bunch of rebellious Israelites disobeyed God’s word, God is contradicting Himself? I don’t see the reasoning here.
God’s directives of war still apply today, if a people group is threatening you, you murder, just like today…If God was saying to protect your people from terrorists, you naturally would protect your own, sometimes war is necessary for a greater cause, if you understand the difference between good and evil, righteousness and unrighteousness, right and wrong, you will understand why God directed the Israelites to conquer the midianites…to be anti-war is to be foolish and sheltered.
the same war continues today between the Jews and the Palestinians, it will continue until the day Christ returns….sorry to deflate your balloon Obama.
So you are telling me that you have never had to fight for a cause that is greater than yourself, something that goes beyond mans reason or intellect?
example: poor people being perpetrated on by a corrupt government, women being abused without protection, children being neglected or abused, animals being abused, just to name a few…
Doesn’t this make you want to do something, even if you don’t gain anything from it?
My point is that war sometimes needs to happen to bring freedom. How many people were slaughtered unconsciencely by Sudam Insane? Wouldn’t intercession be the only humanitarian thing to do, didn’t that require war? Would Sudam respond to basic human reasoning? I think not.
Thanks. :D I’m surprised no one else came up with it first, at least not according to Google. It seems so obvious.
So it was a “lawful” killing for the Israelites to cut open pregnant women and kill children and babies?
I’m glad we live in an era in which we have the Geneva convention because, apparently, human morality is higher than god’s morality.
LRA, I couldn’t respond to your follow up, so I am responding to my own.
Are we debating the existence of God or His reasoning? I can’t begin to place myself in the seat of explaining God’s actions. It is beyond both of our comprehension so I make no effort to evaluate His motivations or design.
I can say if I were the supreme ruler of the universe everything would be within my control. We have a distinctly western value system here in the US. We hold life to be the most cherished of gifts. God knows what is beyond the grave. He knows the plan for each of us. So while you and I may think of death as the ultimate penalty, many of the ancient cultures merely considered it a re-birth…a renewal. Just as our first birth does not come without pain, I imagine our second is no different. The Geneva Convention, is only a set of rules made by a few men. They may or may not be adhered to in a time of war. In the end, it doesn’t matter. One thing is certain, we will all die. I believe we will transition into another life. So death is not the end but a new beginning.
Peace
He doesn’t have to live down here. We do. So, shortly, why should we care what or how he values? Moral incomprehensibility might as well be moral vacuity if the results to us are the same.
Wars here. Wars there. Wars, wars, everywhere in the Bible, all commanded by a benevolent god. HMMM. Let me think.
Then we have women being raped. What about those prophets that entered a town to find one good man. They were taken into the man’s home. When the townspeople came by and demanded that the men be given over to them, the owner of the home offered his daughters instead. Nice Christian. That is called abuse of women in my book.
A similar scene is repeated later in the Bible with the man offering his wife. If nothing else, the Bible perpetuates abuse of women.
The Bible is a book of contradictions to numerous to list here. If you really want a list, go to this site: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
Quite frankly, I don’t think it is worth trying to “look at the writer and his background,” etc., because these people, by today’s standards, were utterly benighted. They knew nothing about geology, astronomy, and biology, all of which have made their belief systems look utterly ridiculous.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
By the way, outside of physics, chemistry, or biology, “natural law” is a vacuous reification, like phlogiston or the luminiferous ether.
Harleigh Kyson Jr.
“To be human is to be selfish”.
To be a concern troll is to be concerned.
QED.
The “existence of God “….you mean ‘exist ” as in the existence of the author of this blog , 500 years ago or 500 years in the future ? Existence of a hypothetical Creator of reality is a flawed premise.
If anything, he strengthened the future faith of the theist by pointing out the present weaknesses of his arguments.
What’s wrong with that? I feel the world is enriched when people know better reasons for believing what they believe. Strengthening a person’s faith in this way strengthens particularly the *intellectual rigor* of that faith, makes a more conversible quantity, more sensible to others.
There is very little on this Earth more annoying than not being able to talk with someone because they have not slightest notion of what they are talking about and yet believe it very strongly all the same. The world could do with a bit less of this sort of belief, and a bit more of the sort informed by contemplation, conversation, and challenge.
jt,
You just do not make any sense at all. Surely you realize that a degree does not an educated man make. And Einstein did NOT believe in intelligent design. That is a scholastic myth. Also, Einstein was not necessarily an educated man. Smart yes, Education? Very limited.
MD’s and PHD’s would not necessarily be versed enough to comment authoritatively or even discuss a superior intelligence with the same degree of understanding as even you or me.
Charles Manson could have started a religion 2,000 years ago! 60 different authors over a 1000 year period is one of the main problems with taking the Bible or any so-called sacred scripture seriously. They would also pick and choose. Some writings were put in. Some were left out! If Moby Dick had been written over 2000 years ago and been added to by over 60 different authors for the next 1000 years we might have Sunday aquariums for places of worship all over the world by now. Especially if, for hundreds of years, illiterate religious leaders had non aquatic believers killed. Sure Christianity had a beginning. A long, long time ago. As I said before, you could not possibly get away with trying to start a Christian religion today. It would be laughed off of CNN.
The only reason that religion is perpetuated today is because our children are brainwashed unmercifully in religious cultures. Walk into any first grade schoolroom in America and ask the class how many know where we came from. All hands would go up and when questioned all would reply that God made us! You have to get them early. Very, very few intelligent thinking adults would arrive at that conclusion on their own.
The Nicene Creed is simply comical! There is absolutely NO reason to believe in a supreme BEING of any ilk. I could write a Creed and, if I killed, burned or ostracized enough non believers for thousands of years I dare say it would survive.
As for your comments on the intelligence of the Arabs in the 1st century and the library at Alexandria. I don’t doubt for a minute that the Arabs were intelligent. Just that they were incredibly illiterate by todays standards. And, it probably was a great library. Perhaps one of a very few. FOR ITS DAY! Surely you are not suggesting that any first rate high school library of today would not put it to shame!
As for the flood. Yes, everybody has had one. The one we recently had in North Dakota was of biblical proportions, no doubt. However, that story, if it had any semblence of truth, simply makes that particular god one of the worlds most notorious mass murderers who would surely be prosecuted in the modern world for unspeakable crimes against humanity. Let’s face it. The western god is one horrible, vindictave entity.
And if there was a god why would he want us to worship him? If you were god would you want your creation to worship you? He just wouldn’t fly in todays world without brainwashed little children. And, like I said before, religion is something one inherits from ones family, culture or society. Almost without exception around the world.
Finally, who would have created THIS creature? All religious writings have trouble with this one! Those illiterate Arabs did have sense enough not to get too hung up on this major flaw in their non-logic. He, or it, just always was. Oh, now I understand…………….
I have been pausing for many moments almost all of my life. I was raised in a christian pentecostal atmosphere. Luckily I discovered comic books and learned to read and understand what I read very well at a very early age. I now hold several degrees and have spent a lifetime reading, writing, studying and reflecting. What have I learned? That the concept of supreme beings and religion is silly beyond belief (pun intended). There is absolutely NO proof or reason to believe in a supreme being or deity. If there was and he wanted believers, all he would have to do is scrawl a big message across the moon saying something similar to: THIS IS GOD. Even I would have to take notice of that. Why not make it simple? (The Arabs came up with a good one to counteract that too with “The lord works in mysterious ways.”) A classic.
What do I believe? Based on accumulated knowledge I feel that we are accidents of chemistry and that this unbelieveably large universe is literally teeming with billions of intelligent civilizations the likes of which it is difficult to even imagine. We might not even be the most intelligent life form on this planet. We might even be somewhere on one of the middle rungs of the intelligence ladder here with no way to communicate. Even small creatures that can only be seen through a microscope can kill us. Call that dominion!?
I now have more living behind than in front of me. I love life and I am in awe of this incredibly large universe. I suppose my biggest disappointment with this life is the fact that ignorance is rampant in the world and that there are still humans that believe in gods, goblins, ghost and devils. If there was any reason or proof for these beliefs it would be different. But unfortunately, like I said, we brainwash our young very early.
Anyway, it’s been interesting and fun commenting with you. Perhaps our life forces will meet in another galaxy far, far away several million years from now. How will you recognize me? I’ll be the burnt and singed guy walking down the street with a sign saying, “REPENT”.
@jtcrawford: Einstein … believed in intelligent design – that is a lie check out Einsteins thoughts.
Only 7% of science academics have belief in a personal god (1998 source) – that is only 7% in the entire world – get the picture? And less than 8% have a belief in human immortality.
Thanks for repeating the Nicene Creed – hadn’t read that in ages. Sounds like something people belonging to a cult would chant, doesn’t it? Oh wait …
Einstein actually was an Atheist. As was Abraham Lincoln, probably Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and many other of the great historians. You need to study up a bit more and actually read their writings. When you do, you will realize that they had to write in subtleties, making it appear that they believed in a god but they actually didn’t . Remember that at the time of their writings, Atheists were condemned, often censored, removed from their high positions, and sometimes killed. Galileo did not believe in a god and look what happened to him.
jt, your post would be what we would call “projection.” Oh, and fractally wrong.
I must agree with hkyson on that point. Christians are really good at serving it up to others, but they tend to scream the loudest when someone dares diss them back. Rarely do I see them practice the teachings of Jesus about turning the other cheek, not passing judgement on others and so forth. Countless millions have been slaughtered in the name of Christ over the millennia.
Even today Christians love to preach hatred in the name of love, and many retain a rather fierce mindset of militancy when it comes to imposing their own set of values upon the rest of humanity. Their charity is almost always conditional. Here in town at the homeless rescue mission, someone cold and starving must first sit through a church service and listen to a sermon before getting a hot meal and a bed for the night — a prime example of good ol’ Baptist charity at work there!
Even QuakerDave had to get in his little dig here a little further down in the thread about atheists being childish. It is my understanding that Quakers are pacifists and are taught to “be still and know that I am God” — QuakerDave is a proud liberal agitator who vociferously proclaims to work toward peace, freedom and equality for all. I guess he offers his activism for universal peace and tolerance to everyone around the world except to atheists with a sense of humor. Maybe QuakerDave needs to grow up just a little bit more himself.
…and these are just the ruminations of a wild hungry tabbiecat in the middle of the night. I think I’ll run off and eat some oatmeal now.
Stan, heading out to Church this morning. I don’t think we will agree on this one anytime soon. Maybe you are right…after death I think we will agree. Education and intelligence do seem to run together. I am not saying lack of an education means low or no intelligence but I will say education shows ones ability to understand and process material.
Personally speaking, understanding something fully has never been a prerequisite for it being real. When I was in high school I had the toughest time with calculus. Proofs, models and the sort seemed like voodoo to me. Yet they tell me it’s all true.
Einstein did believe in intelligent design. He wrote several notes regarding this belief. His most recent biography mentions the fact a dozen or so times.
Sure Stan, you could create a creed. But would you be willing to follow those beliefs unto death? Mark was martyred in Alexandria under the reign of Nero. His body was dragged behind an ox cart through the narrow stone covered streets. Could you, in your absense, convince thousands and even millions to follow your ideas? More importantly, could you do it without force? Without a position of power? Jesus was no earthly king. How could he have instituted such changes on a backward world? There was no CNN or Blogsites to spread the news. Wouldn’t his actions had to have been very note worthy to even get traction?
I believe we hold our faith at a distance and observe it and test it. Isaiah 1:18 says ” Come let us reason together.” That’s still valid today. We (Christians) would gain nothing by believing in a false truth or false god. Yet that is not the case. There is too much belief that Christians are “head down into the Bible and all else get out of the way.” It’s simply not true. If you want to delve deeper into the subject I am happy to take some time. But we might choose a single bit at a time. I believe firmly, that there is a God. His story is told through the words of the Bible. I also believe others wrote about him.
With less of your life ahead than behind…it seems one last look wouldn’t hurt eh?
Dorkman,
Your source smells of bias. I do not know the publication but anything that uses the “Daily Mail” as a reference can’t be a true scholarly journal can it? The random sampling, regression analysis, reporting errors would all be in question to me. I know scientist at Jefferson National Labs, NASA, and Universities who proclaim Jesus their personal Lord and Savior. In fact, I don’t know of many who reject Christianity…I am certain there are adequate numbers.
One failing of our faith probably comes from the “Great Awakening.” Preachers with little knowledge began to spread the Gospel. The farther you reach back, the more interesting the story becomes. The information is there. Are there parts without complete information sure…but isn’t Lucy a bit of a stretch and doesn’t the big bang have a few holes of its own? Just because we can’t explain something doesn’t make it true.
Stan,
You and I are in the same ‘pew’. It is a fact that most educated people do not believe in god. They find that it is an irrational belief, having no proof whatsoever. Most people who still hold on to the idea of there being a god often do so for socialization purposes, because they are afraid that they will be ridiculed, or because they like the traditions. I know one ‘Atheist’, not a pure Atheist as there are gradations within the realm of Atheism (Dawkins, The God Delusion), who still goes to church and celebrates the holidays just because he likes the rituals. He does not believe in god or Jesus or anything proposed by the religion. Just likes doing the holidays and singing the songs. Plus, it leads his family to believe that he is still a Christian. Some Atheists just can’t come out of the closet. Closet Atheists are all over this world because they don’t want to put up with Christians harping on them all the time, trying to convert them or telling them they will burn in hell.
In the end, it is the uneducated that tend to follow religions. An educated person or well read person will understand the science behind all that happens in the universe and realize that there is no god.
Uh, Stan, I don’t believe that a world-class physicist such as Newton or Einstein can be fairly considered to be uneducated.
Einstein’s views on religion are actually quite subtle, as a person can see on http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/23008.
Here are some remarks I copied from this site:
“Pantheism and the personal God
“Einstein’s conviction that nature is rational is closely linked to his conception of God: he could not believe that God played dice with the universe, because that would be irrational. He accepted what he believed to be the corollary, namely that human beings have no free will. Einstein’s other favourite saying – that the Lord is subtle but not malicious – is related to the same conviction of rationality. “Nature”, he concluded, “hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse.”
“For those who regard all forms of religious belief as superstition, it would be attractive to conclude that Einstein simply meant “nature” whenever he used the word “God”. Indeed, identifying God with nature is known as pantheism, a belief that is generally attributed to the unorthodox Jewish philosopher Baruch Spinoza (1632-1677). We know that Einstein admired Spinoza greatly and, although he did not share all of his religious views, it would seem plausible to label Einstein a pantheist.
“However, in 1929 – during a rare interview with a journalist – Einstein was directly asked if he believed in the God of Spinoza. “I can’t answer with a simple yes or no,” he replied. “I am not an atheist [and] I do not know if I can define myself as a pantheist.” Indeed, pantheists view God and the universe as co-eternal and believe that there was no act of creation, whereas Einstein does seem to have regarded the universe as a creation.
“But why did Einstein not believe in a personal God? To answer that question, we have to understand what he meant by the term. I would define a personal God as a God with whom human beings can have a relationship, analogous to those they have with one another. Although this idea might seem to indicate that God has a human form, I think it is perfectly possible to believe in a personal God who is not anthropomorphic. I suspect – but cannot clearly demonstrate – that Einstein sometimes confused the two ideas.
“For example, while Einstein certainly did not like anthropomorphism, he still used personal terms, such as subtlety and malice, when speaking about God. Indeed, in his 1929 interview, the best simile he could think of for God was as the author of a whole library of books! Einstein would probably have defended himself by pointing to the limitations of human language, which make it almost impossible to avoid personal terminology completely.
“But it is surprising that Einstein used such personal terms when talking about God, given that he saw his lifelong devotion to science as an attempt to transcend the “merely personal” in his own life; this suggests that he thought a personal God would be a limited God. Whatever he meant by “personal God”, Einstein remained consistent in his opposition to the idea until the very end of his life.
Cosmic religion
“Although Einstein was not always consistent in what he said about God, there is a consistent theme running through his thoughts on religion – a theme that he called “cosmic religion”. He used this term to reflect the awe he felt when confronted with the universe and our ability to begin, at least, to comprehend it. Writing in 1930, he saw hints of this cosmic religion in the Psalms and the Hebrew prophets, and more clearly in Buddhism. This cosmic religion, he wrote, “knows no dogma and no God conceived in man’s image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it”.
“Einstein’s dislike of organized religion is clear. Many people today, according to opinion polls, have similar ideas. They profess to believe in the spiritual – or even in God – yet rarely or never enter a church, mosque or synagogue. However, Einstein should not be regarded as their precursor. Their “new-age spirituality” is often anti-scientific, whereas Einstein’s cosmic religion was based firmly on a profound understanding of the physical universe, and of its underlying mathematical structure.
“Einstein also often referred to his feelings of mystery and awe. The mystery, it seems to me, had three elements. Why is there anything at all? Why is the universe rational and ordered? And how can we, with our limited human minds, understand and appreciate at least something of that ordered rationality? I believe he used the word “God” as a shorthand for all this because he could think of none better.
“Einstein’s condemnation of anthropomorphic images of God is at one with the most profound insights of all religions. He knew very well that the second commandment (which Jews and Muslims have kept more strictly than Christians) says we should not make any graven image and bow down and worship it. On that theme, Einstein agrees with the Hebrew prophets, whom he saw as forerunners of his cosmic religion.
“Whether or not he meant more than their denunciations of idols when he denied belief in a personal God, I do not know. However, Einstein’s cosmic religion differs both from orthodox monotheism and from scientific materialism because of his conviction that science and religion must work together to explore the mysteries that fascinated him. That, surely, is the meaning of another of his famous sayings: “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
Box: Einstein on God and religion
” * [Quantum] theory yields much, but it hardly brings us close to the Old One’s secrets. I, in any case, am convinced He does not play dice. (1926, in a letter to Max Born)
” * I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual who survives his physical death…. (1930, from an essay)
” * We see a universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand those laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. (1929, part of his reply to the question: “Do you believe in the God of Spinoza?”)
” * What I am really interested in is whether God could have created the world in a different way; in other words, whether the requirement of logical simplicity admits a margin of freedom. (Mid-1940s, remark reported by Ernst Gabor Straus, then Einstein’s assistant)
” * Then I would feel sorry for the good Lord. The theory is correct anyway. (1919, reply to his assistant, Ilse Rosenthal-Schneider, w