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I know this will be a shocker to many of you, but a recent government study has concluded that most alternative medicine doesn’t work:
Ten years ago the government set out to test herbal and other alternative health remedies to find the ones that work. After spending $2.5 billion, the disappointing answer seems to be that almost none of them do.
Echinacea for colds. Ginkgo biloba for memory. Glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis. Black cohosh for menopausal hot flashes. Saw palmetto for prostate problems. Shark cartilage for cancer. All proved no better than dummy pills in big studies funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. The lone exception: ginger capsules may help chemotherapy nausea.
Oh well, I guess we’ll have to rely on prayer instead, right?
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126 Comments
The National Health Service in the UK has just made acupuncture available for the treatment of back pain after exhaustive trials showed it is about the only thing that DOES work.
Yeah my girlfriend swears by acupuncture to treat her chronic backpains. I’m sceptical but more research is appearing that shows it outperforms placebo’s. Might have to reconsider and give it a try.
For a skeptical discussion of recent published reports about acupucnture and other alternative treatments, see Respectful Insolence.
Another acupuncture study misinterpreted
Yawn…another overhyped acupuncture study
The largest “randomized” acupuncture study ever done: Why did they even bother?
Can we finally just say that acupuncture is nothing more than an elaborate placebo? Can we?
It to summarize because I know not everyone will/wants to read.
It doesn’t matter where you stick the needles, whether you actually pierce the skin with the needles, or even if you actual use needles (pokes with toothpicks work just as well).
It’s a placebo.
Right. Apparently, acupuncture is just as effective as sticking yourself in random places with a toothpick.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go market a box of toothpicks as an “At Home Acupuncture Kit” and make a fortune.
lol
I will patent an other alternative medicine, but I haven’t decided the name yet. Ya know, when you put your hand over the lighter, you will have some pain, and after that, you will notice some relief… I bet that with an atractive name it will work like acupuncture ;-)
OK, so maybe I won’t need to revise my skeptical opinion of acupuncture after all. :P Cue incoming argument with girlfriend who doesn’t grasp the concept of the placebo effect. “But it works!“
How does one test the efficacy of a placebo against another placebo?
If the federal government says it’s so then it’s so. Right? After all, we know we can trust everything the federal government says. Right?….WRONG!!! The FDA and big pharma have been in bed with each other for years. It’s just trying to protect the pharmaceutical companies profits. I’ve seen too much anecdotal evidence that alternative medicine works to believe this horseshit.
Are you joking or serious? Anecdotal evidence?
Anecedotal evidence for alternative medicine = confirmation bias
Since I’m not a scientist, all the evidence that I’d have, to “personally” speak about, would have to be anecdotal. There is much scientific evidence to be had if only you’d look for it. Try JAMA, USDA, Harvard Health Publications, I could go on.
No offense, but you sound like a believer talking about religion. :)
None taken.
I would say the reverse is true of you. You sound like a believer in a system of that if it doesn’t come from a bottle it must be true. Alternative medicine encompasses many disciplines, some of which are now a part of standardized medicine. Physiotherapy started out as alternative medicine. Elements of Naturopathy are based in providing cure naturally instead of in pill form. Willow bark tea is where ASA comes from, mustard has been used for years in bringing down fevers. Glucosamine is not a placebo, it encourages the production of joint fluids and a compound based upon Glucosamine is what they injected into my knee to keep it from being further harmed during surgery. Acupuncture has proven effective in releasing lactic acid build up in muscles, its why athletes use it. Its just alternative because it hasn’t been accepted as general practice, the stuff that works will stick around will become general practice, refined into a formal science to achieve maximum results, herbalism/naturopathy to pharmacology. The stuff that doesn’t won’t. Their is great benefit in exploring other ways of healing, why would you close doors on something just because it won’t fit your understanding of it.
What the hell are you talking about. All I’ve been trying to say is that all alternate medicine isn’t useless. By the same token I also think that traditional medicine is effective as well. I personally think that one should use all methods of healing available. That alternate medicine is particularly good for disease prevention and that it includes good dietary nutrition. Something both traditional and alternative medicine advocates. At no time did I say that traditional medicine didn’t work.
@fftysmthg
You pop by and allege a “big pharma/FDA” conspiracy, claim there’s scientific evidence this woo works …
Links?
Sorry, I don’t play golf. Thanks anyway.
You used that pun as an evasive maneuver to avoid answering. I’m willing to believe your “big pharma/FDA” conspiracy, but you weren’t forthcoming with evidence. Metro was asking for evidence.
Well, it’s not really about conspiracy as much as loopholes. Basically, small changes in drugs get counted to renew the patent. I already listed the racemic mixture/entantiomer trick, but there are others that big pharma uses to keep drug prices high. That being said, the drugs actually have to *work* to be approved, so it is an inefficient system, but a system that works none the less.
My personal favorite trick they do is after the drug has been on the market for a while and is about to go off-patent, they’ll patent the prodrug and shill for it as the next big thing, even though in the vast majority of cases the prodrug has the exact same efficacy profile as the original drug (since, in a sense, it is the original drug in a pre-metabolized form). Check out the difference between loratadine and desloratadine, for example.
Exactly. Or else they’ll move around the functional groups on the carbon base and claim that it’s an entirely new drug even though it’s efficacy is only slightly improved or similar to the original.
@ fftysmthg
Weeee’re waiting.
Still no evidence. Well geez, that’s kinda … unsatisfying, y’know?
Big ‘evil’ pharma does have some downright interesting ways of making money — the number of trials where the results are never reported, the difference between commercial trials giving more favourable outcomes than non-commercial trails, suppression of negative evidence — to name but a few.
Does this mean that CAM is effective, no of course not. The vast majority of CAM treatments have been shown time and time again to be complete bunk yet the practice is still allowed to carry on. If CAM works then Gillian McKeith really is a doctor.
Pissing in the fountain of science is different from “vast shadowy conspiracy on the part of several hundred thousand people to keep the rest of us down.”
It’s certainly wise to question tobacco-funded research into the effects of tobacco. That’s why the US has the FDA and its agencies (which aren’t perfect, but are better than allowing industry to self-police its claims).
But it’s a long step from there to an entire industry, made up of competing companies, with secret tendrils extending into government, engaging in a sub-rosa pact (that for some reason appears to be less than secret) that requires literally hundreds of thousands of people to keep absolutely quiet about it, including all media bigger than “this one guy I know who has a web page” …
Touchstone question: fftysmthg–How do you feel about the relationship between vaccines and autism?
Why tempt the release of the Big Wad of Crazy?
Seriously, if the herbs and other botanical chemicals actually worked, big pharma would be all over it, patenting it, and selling it for exorbitant prices. If they could put some inexpensive vegetable into pill form and make a profit, they would.
The reason they don’t is because they have to actually prove how the medicine works, including a description of the mechanism. Since alternative “medicine” doesn’t have to prove its claims, they can grind up plants and sell them for a pretty good profit, all without having to spend a dime on research and development.
I never trust a medicine that I don’t know the mechanism of.
I don’t think they would have to show how it works, but they would have to reproducibly show in controlled studies that it does work. All “alternative” treatments have failed to do this. If they succeeded at this, they wouldn’t be “alternative” any more.
One reason big pharma might not be eager to investigate such natural remedies is a lack of intellectual property protection.
If you read the inserts of prescription medications, it always gives the mechanism of how it works. For anti-depressants, it blocks re-uptake of various neurotransmitters depending of the class. For NSAIDS, it blocks the cox-2 enzyme. For statins, they inhibit HMG-CoA reductase, etc. Yes, there is some leeway (like with anti-depressants, they say that the causes of the depression aren’t fully understood), but there is a chemical mechanism given for each medication.
I have yet to see a chemical mechanism for ginko bilboa or chondroitin, other than a vague claim.
Alternative Medicine that works is called Medicine.
Haha, Tim Minchin rocks. This article instantly reminded me of “Storm”:
“What do you call alternative medicine that’s been proven to work? Medicine.”
I steal from the great.
There is a thing called the placebo effect. Basically, if you believe something will help, it will. In that case, however, it’s not the herbs or crystals or whatever helping, it’s the belief.
Pharma-conspiranoic?
Hmm, that is surprising indeed. After all, “alternative” medicine can just about mean anything – inclusive of natural cures (e.g. herbs) that people use because they been found to work by experience. Fennel tea, for example, could be called an “alternative” medicine as well, but it works fine for me for light stomach problems. There’s no magic in that, but it’s not a product of the pharmaceutical industry either.
So, what exactly is alternative medicine? Might be good to define your enemy before starting to hit it :-).
Alternative medicine is treatments that have been rejected by mainstream science because they have shown no more benefit over placebo in clinical trials.
I respectfully disagree. Although the rejection by mainstream science is a big part of alternative medicine, it does not apply to ALL alternative therapies. Most diet drugs are your definition of alternative medicine. However, cranberry juice is proven to shorten the duration of urinary tract infections by the acid it produces in the bladder. The medical world knows this and even recommends its use to their patients but it is not bottled up and prescribed because it is a juice.
Alternative therapies can be divided into two catagories: “pharmacological” and “non-pharmacological.” Pharmacological being the use of herbs and OTCs and non-pharm being meditation/prayer, acupuncture, massage, etc. In the medical community, we mostly roll our eyes at non-pharm therapies. I mean, prayer and meditation? Really? And when’s the last time music therapy ever helped you stop vomiting?
Crainberry juice isn’t alternative medicine, it’s a natural remedy. It’s accepted my mainstream science as a treatment.
I’ve always known cranberry juice to be an “alternative” medicine. It’s an alternative to drugs.
I’ve always seen it defined as an alternative to conventional medicine.
If the options to treat a condition are drug therapy or surgery is surgery alternative medicine?
That’s stretching it a little too far, don’t you think? Surgery is an invasive procedure which involves the use of heavy medication. Now if the options were drug therapy or praying to jesus 15 times a day- then prayer is the alternative.
The stretch was intentional, I was pointing out that conventional med=drugs alternative med=non-drugs was a bad definition.
I’ll be more specific so it’s less of a stretch.
Warts, would getting them frozen or lasered off (not drugs needed) be an alternative medicine since the alternative is treating with drugs?
A new less stretched example would probably be, surgery with drugs vs physical therapy/injury rehab. Both are tools that are used by conventional medicine, but one doesn’t involve drugs. Does that make it conventional because it’s commonly used and has been thoroughly tested, or alternative because it doesn’t use drugs?
“If the options to treat a condition are drug therapy or surgery is surgery alternative medicine.”
No, It would be an alternate treatment of traditional medicine. You like playing with semantics.
So why wouldn’t cranberry juice be conventional medicine if recommending it has become the norm and it’s better shown effective in studies?
“Natural remedies” is a fancy way of saying “alternative medicine”
I agree with you that’s how it usually is meant. But most “natural remedies” are bullshit. So calling them a “remedy” is a misnomer. Cranberry juice and such actually do remedy a symptom, so I consider them natural remedies.
Now doing a cranberry enema with a cowboy hat? That’s alternative medicine. ;)
Remember the Cowboy Hat must be pointed at 4 O’clock.
and you have to keep the cranberry juice in place for at least 10 minutes.
Tilly, you sound like an Orhtodox Cranberry Non-Hatist heathen!
Not quite. It’s a bit like saying “you have to complement with your diet with more vegetables and beans, maybe a few grains, because it will help such and such things in your body.”
I don’t think anybody is saying cranberry juice will CURE an infection. Help, yes, just like drinking milk helps with calcium levels (or some such) but won’t cure ostheoporosis on its own.
Aspirin comes from birch bark. That makes it a natural remedy, but also actual medicine. The terms are not mutual exclusive.
Yes but the birch bark is natural so it must be better and far more expensive?
Well, if you define alternative medicine as stuff that “doesn’t work”, it’s a bit redundant to be surprised if it doesn’t work, isn’t it :-)
Yes. That’s why I can’t understand people who still believe in “alternative medicine” vs real medicine. If something works, you can prove it. So medicine will accept it and study why it works, and sometimes even improve it. It’s not alternative medicine anymore, then.
When you can’t prove that something works -like homeopathy- then it is “alternative medicine”
Mint tea for stomach upset or ginger root for nausea is not alternative medicine. It’s basically over the counter medicine. Just because something doesn’t need a prescription doesn’t make it alternative medicine. Tylenol is a good example of this.
Your examples are confusing. The active ingredient in tylenol is acetaminophen. It is available over the counter, as is aspirin. These are real medicines which have been shown effective in controlled clinical trials.
If there are any controlled clinical trials supporting the effectiveness of mint tea and ginger root for the purposes you mention, please share.
ASA was first discovered and utilized in medicine as willow bark tea.
An interesting discussion to say the least. I would like to comment though, about such ‘herbal remedies’ or whatever you prefer to call them. Many of the herbs that have been mentioned are easy to find and very inexpensive. Why not just get some of the herb and test it yourself? Like ginger – the crystallized version is a good one to try for newbies. If your stomach is upset, just eat a little of it and it will help to calm your problems. I didn’t believe any of it until I tried it. From my personal experience, it’s much more cost effective, and more pleasant (no side effects) to prevent issues or treat them with something natural. My Chinese herbalist isn’t any more expensive to visit than my medical doctor, but he has this amazing ability to figure out my symptoms before I even tell him what they are while my medical doctor would prefer to put me through a series of rather violating tests. There is a huge difference between the two forms of medicine. The so-called alternative methods take into account much more than just what happens physically. They also ask about things happening in your life, your mental and spiritual health, and other similar matters. They take the time to listen to you much more than a practitioner of traditional medicine would. The five minutes my doc is willing to spend with me gives little time to get to the root of what may be the problem. Bedside manner is a huge part of medicine that is growing more and more rare, and it affects the patients to a great degree.
Because if the history of medicine has taught us ANYTHING, it’s that we can’t test ourselves. We have confirmation bias and placebo and it messes us up too much. Cause and effect just can’t be determined with one person — you suck on rat dung, and hey, you feel better the next day! But if you didn’t suck on the rat dung, would you have felt better the next day anyway? You have no way of knowing. Or was it just thinking that rat dung would cure you, that you feel better? If it would have been cow dung, would the result have been the same?
Unfortunately it took thousands of years of humans to discover the clinical trial, and that’s when things finally started getting exponentially better, because there was more reliable ways to test medicine.
Some attention and a placebo is probably a pretty effective treatment for bumps/bruises, aches/pains or some sniffles, but if you are seriously sick you need something that will actually (aka clinically demonstrated effectiveness) treat you instead of just making you think you feel better.
Supplements, Complementary and Alternative MedicineS are either untested, unrefined/non-dose regulated versions of effective conventional treatments or have been shown not to be effective in double blinded clinical trials.
If they weren’t one of those 3 they would be conventional medicine.
>My Chinese herbalist isn’t any more expensive to visit than my medical doctor, but he has this amazing ability to figure out my symptoms before I even tell him what they are while my medical doctor would prefer to put me through a series of rather violating tests. <
You claim your doctor puts you through tests before you tell him your symptoms. Sure you do…
And your herbalist knows your symptoms before you tell him. Why do you tell him, if he already knows?
I’ve also read that CHinese traditional medicine can cure a viral infection in, oh, about two to three weeks (snickers…heheheheh).
Curious thing though, it can take about that long for a virus to run its natural course.
Credulity can be a curious thing.
It sounds like the herbalist is practicing some cold reading. That makes him seem oh so trustworthy, doesn’t it?
i dnt find this surprising…this is capitalism..and its abt money..how much money would i make if treated you once and cured you?…but if i dnt cure you, jus treat your symptoms i can make tons of money..see how it works
And exactly how is this different from, say, several visits to an expensive chiropractor or healer, or multiple doses of diluted water at exhorbitant prices? See how it works?
Except for the part where Science uses whatever works and can be proven. The amount of money you make really doesn’t have anything to do with it.
What world do you live in? The pharmaceutical companies aren’t in the business of making cures, It’s in the business of making money for their stockholders.
because only pharma makes money. Not the natural supplement makers, not CAM practitioners. Just Pharma, everything else is sold for cost I’m sure.
… everything else is sold for cost I’m sure.
And the costs for “alternative medicine” is much lower, because they don’t do any actual research.
I see a lot more ads for the likes of ginko biloba and other cure-alls than for big pharma. They also sell a lot more – and they aren’t all that cheap, either.
Yay for ripping the believers.
Yeah thats definitely it. Has nothing to do with the difficulty in finding cures, its all about the money that can be made NOT FINDING THE CURES.
You do realize that “cures” for essentially any disease would in turn produce maximum profits worldwide for any company? You also realize that pharma companies are in a constant state of competition with one another? A company that could cure diabetes would run every other company in the business of treating diabetes off the map, cornering the market and maximizing profits.
I’m not saying that our current healthcare system isn’t flawed, it certainly is, and there is plenty of blame to go around including on the big pharma end.
Many serious health problems, for instance cancer, are almost assured that there will never be a “universal cure” because of the person-specific nature of the disease causing for immense variation. It arises from our own cells and it still has characteristics of our own cells which make it extremely difficult to “target” while leaving the cells that are still good. There is a wealth of data that suggests in some cases it is more reasonable to spend resources on prolonging life rather than finding a cure since with our current technologies a cure is not likely. That doesn’t mean we should stop trying, but the radical discoveries that will help in the future are going to come from Biotech not big Pharma.
The attitude that the pharma companies “have the cure but won’t release it” or “don’t want to find the cure” is just silly ignorance. The best thing a company can do is eliminate competition and gain worldwide patient exposure…the best way to do that is unequivocably finding the cure.
But TGE the Pharma companies are one big secret conspiracy along with the U.S. Government, the govenments of the rest of the first world nations, the jews of course, the aliens and the crab people.
Yeah, they’re still making big bucks off that polio vaccine.
So when they do “cure” a disease it’s evidence that they can’t profit from curing disease, and when they don’t cure a disease it’s evidence that they don’t try to cure disease?
It’s more like if you cure a disease you cut into long term profits, so it’s better to develop on going treatments, that way you ensure long term profitability. Which keeps the stockholders happy. That is their number one priority.
****It’s more like if you cure a disease you cut into long term profits, so it’s better to develop on going treatments, that way you ensure long term profitability. Which keeps the stockholders happy. That is their number one priority.*******
Sorry to break it to you but a patent on any medicine only lasts 12 years (it could be 15, can’t remember exactly) so profits from treatments and cures are reduced to essentially 0 after that time anyway because it becomes legal for any company to manufacture that drug and sell it at any cost after that time.
There goes your “long term profitablity” leg. What are you standing on now?
A huge conspiracy theory rivaling the same conspiracy that every biologist geologist and a teeming multitude of -ologists are partner to hide the fact that the world is 6000 years old and the creation story in the bible is true.
Hes just a wackaloon with another fixation.
Towards the end of the patent there is usually a newer, more effective version of the previous drug. Or they could mix one or two older drugs with a new drug and then rename it something else. Then follow it up with a huge television advertising campaign. The creativity is unending.
****more effective version of the previous drug****
So wait, the drugs are getting better in this conspiracy process? That seems counter-intuative
*****Or they could mix one or two older drugs with a new drug and then rename it something else.*****
Have you ever had chemistry?
So… let’s say that I’m doing pharma investigation in an important university and I “accidentally” discover a cure for the flu. Pharmaceutical aren’t interested in curing the flu, because they get a lot of money to treat his symptoms. What exactly prevent me for looking for a partner and founding my own pharmaceutical company?
Conspiracy theories are so disappointing. Do you understand that your beliefs imply that every doctor working for every pharmaceutical company in the entire world is part of a vast conspiracy to not cure diseases? When you take a step back and look at it, its just magical thinking.
If you want to analyze whats really going on in your head, read this.
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2009/06/the_psychology_of_crankery.php
Because in the Bizzaro World of ffysmthg nobody wants to make instant name brand recognition and an instant demand and the corresponding collapse of their competitors for their product for curing something.
That’s why the cure for Aids, Cancer, the Common Cold, and even Old Age have been sat on as long as they have. More money in treatment.
Really its why Penicillin and its derivatives doesn’t work anymore against the bacteria they used to kill. It’s not Antibiotic Resistance, its BIG PHARMA scaling back and diluting the drugs that used to work so they can make more money selling the same thing under a different name.
Seek help ffysmthg before you start hurting people.
******Really its why Penicillin and its derivatives doesn’t work anymore against the bacteria they used to kill. It’s not Antibiotic Resistance, its BIG PHARMA scaling back and diluting the drugs that used to work so they can make more money selling the same thing under a different name. *****
Haha I never thought of that. Watering down drugs. I guess anything is possible in some peoples minds.
Okay, I will.
I used to work for “big pharma” They are not some evil entity. I watched as they destroyed many, many thousands of bottles of visine on the CHANCE the batch was contaminated, which was VERY small. There are people looking for cures. It just takes time. My 5 year old will see advancements we cannot even imagine. Unfortunately I will only see the very beginning of them.
And of course, that’s why doctors’ and pharmaco execs’ family members NEVER die from cancer, heart disease, etc. … at least in Bizzarro world.
Hey fftysmthg–any progress on those links to some peer-reviewed scientific literature on the effectiveness of woo? Or some confirmed stories about the Big-Pharma/FDA link?
” Really its why Penicillin and its derivatives doesn’t work anymore against the bacteria they used to kill. It’s not Antibiotic Resistance, its BIG PHARMA scaling back and diluting the drugs that used to work so they can make more money selling the same thing under a different name.”
You know it couldn’t be antibiotic resistance, because, ya know, that would be a proof for evolution! You are part of the conspiration!
wouldn’t know…i can get it for free
As a customer Cardiologist once told me “good health is bad for business”.
So Burguer King is also part of the conspiration? I knew it!
As a priest told me once, happy life is bad for the business
Ha. I read that as “BK is part of the constipation”, and I couldn’t disagree. :)
To paraphrase the exquisite Tim Minchin: “Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s
I don’t understand the disconnect some people here have. When Dwade tells anecdotes about dumpster babies or flying trucks, or John C talks about his invisible magic orange grove or his NON-sky daddy who wants to be inside me everyone says proof or shut up. When Supplements, Complimentary and Alternative Medicine is supported by only anecdotes with no proven effects in a controlled setting some of the same people accept it.
We all have our blind spots and desire to believe.
Oh, I’m well aware of that. Listing my religion on facebook as “First Church of Peyton Manning” is a joke, but there’s some truth to it as well. I just save my irrationalities for something trivial and by design subjective (though I am a statgeek within sports, so I still strive for objective in the deeply subjective). I write for a sports blog a read many many others so I see personal biases and blindspots on display constantly.
I am also a member of the First Church of Peyton Manning!
All (Hail Mary)!
Invisible magic orange grove?? I think that was the name of a groovy psychadelic rock band in the 60’s right? Wasnt Sky-Daddy their opening act?
Joe B – funny guy you!
“Have you ever had chemistry?”
They do combination drugs all the time. Just look at some of the newer cholesterol lowering drugs.
Right- in all fairness, big pharma has all kinds of tricks for renewing patents. One of their favorite tricks is to offer the drug as a racemic mixture, then later to offer the *new* drug as one of the entantiomers. It’s a cheap trick because it only involves the extra purification step.
I think people are forgetting academic/university science here as well. Whatever the issues with big pharma are (and there are plenty), some scientist in a university would sell his/her right arm for a cure to AIDS because it would most certainly guarantee a Nobel prize. So, the fact is that scientists ARE looking for cures.
I do not support alternative medicine. I want to see studies on efficacy and side-effects, etc before I go buy some bottle of pills or pay to get stuck on the bottom of my feet or whatever. I think chiropractors are some of the most egregious “practitioners” out there.
Also, on the cranberry issue, a doctor may recommend cranberry, but they would caution you not to replace a doctor’s visit or antibiotics with cranberry. If you do that, your infection could get a lot worse and end up causing permanent damage. And nobody wants permanent damage there!!!
I agree, scientists are looking for cures.
And if the US scientists would not find a cure, then probably Iran and North Korean scientists would find a cure just to show off that they are better that the US.
People with consiparcies always foget that there is a big world out there that is not controlled by the US government. These conspiracies mostly fail when you look at the big picture like world scale. Anti-US people would surely use this a proof that the US government is bad.
reminds me of all the people that let their kids die thinking prayer would fix them.
The Hausers are Catholic, but also believe in the natural healing philosophy of the Nemenhah Band, a Missouri-based religious group that believes in methods advocated by some American Indians. Colleen Hauser testified in court that she believed chemotherapy is a form of poison and that she had been trying to “starve” Daniel’s cancer with supplements, an organic and sugar-free diet and high-alkaline water.
Diabetes Death
In Wisconsin, Leilani Neumann, 41, stood trial Wednesday, accused in the death of her 11-year-old daughter last year. The Weston woman is charged with second-degree homicide in the death of Madeline Kara Neumann, who died March 23, 2008, as a result of untreated diabetes. The girl’s father, Dale Neumann, is scheduled for trial in July.
The Neumanns said they believed prayer would save Madeline.
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20090521/APC0101/905210525
We’re all gonna die. Some will be young, loving, innocent Christian children – who will suffer more pain than most do in a lifetime. My parents explanation for this: “They are suffering for your sins.”
News reporters very seriously and fake-sadly report something like “twenty percent of the dead/injured were children”. Uhhhh, *yeah*, outside of an adults-only establishment, some percent of any group will likely be children. Duh!
“she believed chemotherapy is a form of poison”
Well, it is, isn’t it? That’s how it can kill cancer cells and save your life -I haven’t studied medicine, so correct me if wrong.
But indeed, expecting that alkaline water will do that for you, without any test in that direction, is just Faith
Not a doctor either but, It’s poison it just effects cancer cells more than healthy cells. Kills the cancer, makes you feel like crap.
No it doesn’t, it kills ALL cells with different degrees, but because cancer cells are mostly weak they die sooner. The tricky thing is to find good checmicals that kills far more cancer cells than good cels so you can have a lower dosis.
Couldn’t it be done by a virus only able to infect cancer cells?
It is poison to a degree, as the goal is to kill actively dividing cells (in most cases) but the problem is the body is full of healthy actively dividing cells too. And unlike an invasive bacteria which have a vastly different chemical composition than our own cells, cancer arises from our own cells and still bears much of the same characteristics of healthy cells.
Curing cancer has never been a problem…Curing cancer without killing the patient is the real problem.
But the more we learn about different potential targets of carcinomas the better we can attack only those specific cells.
In fact, if you are rich enough there are a few companies offering complete genomic assesments for your specific cancer and then tayloring your treatment for optimal results with much greater success than standard treatment…problem is the price tag is about 1 million dollars. Hopefully in 15-25 years this will be much cheaper and available to far more people.
Darn–made it all the way to the bottom of the comment thread looking for fftysmthg’s links to the Big Pharma/FDA collusion, and to some scientific literature on the effectiveness of woo cures. But nothing!
Damn–I’ve been fooled again. These folks are way too clever for me, clearly.
Clearly.
Evidently Big Pharma is suppressing the truth. QED.
Oh man, I went round and round about about this with a commenter on my blog this weekend.
The pills that doctors give you actually keep you sick, because they benefit from you being sick.
I, however, have the solution, and will sell it to you for half of what a doctor normally charges!
It’s so sad. People that have to deal with chemo are especially susceptible to that bunk.
My wife (who is a Christian, but is of a really rather mild variety – they run a food bank for the local homeless without proselytizing, and well upwards of 1/3rd of their congregation is homosexual – including the pastor! They’re generally great people, the lot of them) bought me some homeopathic something-or-other for some knee pain I was having (I was also, of course, seeing an orthopedic specialist). I told her (trying to explain it in as un-biased a way as possible for maximum effect) the process that they go through to create homeopathic “remedies”, explaining about “water memory” and the like. Now she understands (and even brought up the Tim-Minchin-like point of “do they think water remembers how much crap was in it? That’s disgusting”), and wishes she hadn’t gotten it.
There ARE still people who can understand that such claims don’t make much sense…the world has hope yet :)
It’s funny to me that people still believe in bat wings and eye of newt. So many people just believe whatever they are told. Skepticism is probably the best defense against being lied to.
I just take skittles for everything.
Oh, and Dr. Pepper. There, that sounds doctorly.
Skittle therapy… hmmmmm… I like it!
“The patient is going into cardiac arrest! I need 10 cc’s of skittles, stat!”
“Er, are you sure about this, Dr. Pepper?”
LOL!!!
I guess Mr. Pibb is the “alternative” to Dr. Pepper.
Ginger capsules! I knew it.
“Oh well, I guess we’ll have to rely on prayer instead, right?”
Looks like the NCCAM is one step ahead of you. From the article…
Would you consider marijuana to be a homeopathic remedy? It seems to me that the benefits of this are accepted by most people.
How does marijuana fit into homeopathy at all? If Marijuana was taken by diluting it up in some water to the point where not a single molecule is present then using it, it would be homeopathy.
Do you mean a herbal remedy? Because no one is saying that there aren’t some plants with medicinal effects. It’s just that nearly all of them that have shown effects have had the effective component isolated and synthesized into a pharmaceutical.
I think some people mistake “homeopathy” for “home-made medicine” as compared to “pharma-made medicine” rather than homeopathy being, as you describe, basically water with magical powers.