Comments on: Coming Out of the Skeptical Closet http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/ Reasonable Thoughts on Religion, Science, Skepticism, and Atheism Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:58:15 -0500 hourly 1 By: Mike Caton http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-52371 Mike Caton Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:51:02 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-52371 In life in general, the more interests, and friends you have (and from the more diverse social circles) the less stressed you are. You've held out a year so far; no rush. Join a few other campus groups. Make more secular friends. Eventually someone will confront you, and you'll be ready; you'll tell them the truth, and some will stop talking to you, some will be okay with it. But you'll have new friends that support you so you won't have to worry about it. You sound like a pretty bright and confident person so I wouldn't worry about whether you'll be "okay". In life in general, the more interests, and friends you have (and from the more diverse social circles) the less stressed you are. You’ve held out a year so far; no rush. Join a few other campus groups. Make more secular friends. Eventually someone will confront you, and you’ll be ready; you’ll tell them the truth, and some will stop talking to you, some will be okay with it. But you’ll have new friends that support you so you won’t have to worry about it. You sound like a pretty bright and confident person so I wouldn’t worry about whether you’ll be “okay”.

]]> By: Aor http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51956 Aor Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:49:45 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51956 Are they your friends if they would drop you for speaking the truth? Are they your friends if they would drop you for speaking the truth?

]]> By: cynic http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51874 cynic Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:39:55 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51874 "And BTW, I call it “it” because it insists that it is of a “different species” than the rest of us. Sure, we could all just “ignore it”, just like you can ignore a gnat at a picnic." hahahahahahahahaaha funniest thing i've ever read on the intenet in all seriousness john c has many times implied that he is not just a 'natural man' but a 'a tri-partate being' with an 'inner man' only natural beings deserve 'he' i think a tri-partate being is a definite 'it' “And BTW, I call it “it” because it insists that it is of a “different species” than the rest of us. Sure, we could all just “ignore it”, just like you can ignore a gnat at a picnic.”

hahahahahahahahaaha
funniest thing i’ve ever read on the intenet

in all seriousness
john c has many times implied that he is not just a ‘natural man’ but a ‘a tri-partate being’ with an ‘inner man’

only natural beings deserve ‘he’
i think a tri-partate being is a definite ‘it’

]]> By: Mogg http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51733 Mogg Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:56:38 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51733 I think he's saying that all of those transition times in life are opportunities to find a new community, so not to worry too much about the perceived loss. FWIW, I feared the same thing when I left my old church, as I had very few strong contacts outside it. I found that I had far more support that I thought. It was pretty rough dealing with the sudden severe curtailment of relationships with family and friends, but I did not find myself completely alone by any means. That said, I did join a much more liberal church for various reasons including a nagging feeling of needing to have interaction in a community, and I've been lucky there as I so far have been able to be absolutely honest about my beliefs without causing friction or being an outcast. I am able to contribute even though everyone knows I'm skeptical. I think he’s saying that all of those transition times in life are opportunities to find a new community, so not to worry too much about the perceived loss. FWIW, I feared the same thing when I left my old church, as I had very few strong contacts outside it. I found that I had far more support that I thought. It was pretty rough dealing with the sudden severe curtailment of relationships with family and friends, but I did not find myself completely alone by any means. That said, I did join a much more liberal church for various reasons including a nagging feeling of needing to have interaction in a community, and I’ve been lucky there as I so far have been able to be absolutely honest about my beliefs without causing friction or being an outcast. I am able to contribute even though everyone knows I’m skeptical.

]]> By: Sunny Day http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51633 Sunny Day Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:06:34 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51633 "Hiding implies shame, and if you are ashamed of your beliefs then that is a problem. " Hiding is also implies fear of persecution. If you think you will be persecuted for your beliefs, then hide them. Haven't read through the entire thread but there are some obvious reasons to stay hidden. Are they paying for college on their own? Will your chances for further education be harmed by coming out? 90% of their friends are religious and 25% of those are strongly religious. Is it worth risking your support system of friends and contacts to come out to them? “Hiding implies shame, and if you are ashamed of your beliefs then that is a problem. ”

Hiding is also implies fear of persecution. If you think you will be persecuted for your beliefs, then hide them.

Haven’t read through the entire thread but there are some obvious reasons to stay hidden. Are they paying for college on their own? Will your chances for further education be harmed by coming out?

90% of their friends are religious and 25% of those are strongly religious. Is it worth risking your support system of friends and contacts to come out to them?

]]> By: Robert Green http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51580 Robert Green Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:14:37 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51580 Grow a set, and tell those you want to know what your true/real beliefs are. As was said before, your real friends will still be your friends and those who choose not to never were you friends in the first place. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself! Grow a set, and tell those you want to know what your true/real beliefs are. As was said before, your real friends will still be your friends and those who choose not to never were you friends in the first place. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself!

]]> By: brgulker http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51559 brgulker Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:27:11 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51559 Teleprompter, yeah, I've figured out there is more to it than what's happening here. Teleprompter, yeah, I’ve figured out there is more to it than what’s happening here.

]]> By: John C http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51555 John C Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:58:11 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51555 He leads us out of religiosity into the liberty of Himself, His spirit within. Away from rule-keeping, dead rituals and behavioral expectations until all the "externals" fall away. Then, only then apart from our religious conditioning once the scales fall from our eyes can He reveal to us His true nature, who He really is, who we are in Him and He is Love. While you assume you have rejected "Christianity", is it possible that what you really learned is that "religion" the "system", ie "church" is not what you want, can not satisfy our hearts deepest longings? That it did not lead to the freedom you had hoped for, read about and set out after. You are not alone, there are many myself included who have come before you, walked this trail thinking it was "all over" only to find out that Love doggedly pursues us, calls out to us at every turn, that we can not escape this reckless raging fury they call the love of God. You are free'er now than you have ever been, that's why your heart senses a new fround liberty, an unshackling of the bonds that held you, an anticipation of an adventure that lays just before you in the days ahead. And so the real, religion free journey of the heart begins. Only guard your liberty, guard your heart this time for it is the wellspring of life within you. Never again let it be subject to such tyranny, such restraint. Journey on my freed friend, its a brand new day indeed. He leads us out of religiosity into the liberty of Himself, His spirit within. Away from rule-keeping, dead rituals and behavioral expectations until all the “externals” fall away. Then, only then apart from our religious conditioning once the scales fall from our eyes can He reveal to us His true nature, who He really is, who we are in Him and He is Love.

While you assume you have rejected “Christianity”, is it possible that what you really learned is that “religion” the “system”, ie “church” is not what you want, can not satisfy our hearts deepest longings? That it did not lead to the freedom you had hoped for, read about and set out after. You are not alone, there are many myself included who have come before you, walked this trail thinking it was “all over” only to find out that Love doggedly pursues us, calls out to us at every turn, that we can not escape this reckless raging fury they call the love of God. You are free’er now than you have ever been, that’s why your heart senses a new fround liberty, an unshackling of the bonds that held you, an anticipation of an adventure that lays just before you in the days ahead.

And so the real, religion free journey of the heart begins. Only guard your liberty, guard your heart this time for it is the wellspring of life within you. Never again let it be subject to such tyranny, such restraint. Journey on my freed friend, its a brand new day indeed.

]]> By: LRA http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51554 LRA Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:56:24 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51554 The senses lie? Wow. Plato thought that too... The senses lie? Wow. Plato thought that too…

]]> By: Cheryl http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51547 Cheryl Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:09:27 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51547 This is very close to what I would say. I think that at least part of the pressure you (the one who wrote in for advice) are feeling to reveal your beliefs comes from only having lived inside Christian culture, where belief is always a main topic of conversation. What you find outside of Christian culture, is that there are lots more topics of conversation, that your beliefs on God aren't even relevant to. So, consider that it might not actually be as necessary to "confess" as it seems to you right now. If the subject of your personal beliefs does unavoidably come up, one way to start your sentences might be with, "you know, one thing I really wonder about is..." This takes the onus of explanation off of you and leaves the other person free to talk. Then all you have to do is let them talk. The loss of community is very difficult, no matter what the reason. Expect bouts of loneliness. It has taken a long time to establish the community you have, and it will take time to build another. As many others have said, it may be a good idea to make a gradual transition rather than a clean break. The Christian identity is a very strong one, ime. So strong that it can squelch the rest of your personality. Take some time to get to know yourself. What are your interests and talents? Pursue those, and new friends and like-minded community will come naturally. Another thing I strongly recommend, though it doesn't address your current dilemma, is to travel to as many places as your means allow, as soon as you can. Exposure to new cultures will give you perspective and context for the one you have grown up in, which will allow you a much deeper understanding of yourself. This is very close to what I would say. I think that at least part of the pressure you (the one who wrote in for advice) are feeling to reveal your beliefs comes from only having lived inside Christian culture, where belief is always a main topic of conversation. What you find outside of Christian culture, is that there are lots more topics of conversation, that your beliefs on God aren’t even relevant to. So, consider that it might not actually be as necessary to “confess” as it seems to you right now.

If the subject of your personal beliefs does unavoidably come up, one way to start your sentences might be with, “you know, one thing I really wonder about is…” This takes the onus of explanation off of you and leaves the other person free to talk. Then all you have to do is let them talk.

The loss of community is very difficult, no matter what the reason. Expect bouts of loneliness. It has taken a long time to establish the community you have, and it will take time to build another. As many others have said, it may be a good idea to make a gradual transition rather than a clean break.

The Christian identity is a very strong one, ime. So strong that it can squelch the rest of your personality. Take some time to get to know yourself. What are your interests and talents? Pursue those, and new friends and like-minded community will come naturally.

Another thing I strongly recommend, though it doesn’t address your current dilemma, is to travel to as many places as your means allow, as soon as you can. Exposure to new cultures will give you perspective and context for the one you have grown up in, which will allow you a much deeper understanding of yourself.

]]> By: LegalGoddess http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51546 LegalGoddess Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:55:31 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51546 Dear Student- I have walked your path. The <strong>hardest thing</strong> I've ever done in my life was tell my very Church of Christ mother that I was an atheist. I had successfully hidden it from her for about 15 years. I had dodged and avoided and used the "temporary crisis of faith" excuse and finally, I just got tired of the lies. Mom cried and cried and said her heart was broken because she won't see me in heaven. My sister had the same reaction. My grandfather is an elder in the church and he died last year still thinking I was a believer. It was just too hard to think about breaking his heart. He wouldn't have understood. At his funeral I cried as I had never cried before, mainly because of all the crazy crap my family was saying to each other at the religious funeral- i.e. you'll see him again soon, he's in heaven in a mansion now, etc. My husband is also an atheist and is very supportive and he literally held me up during the service. Most of my extended family still doesn't know and I just don't have the energy to assertively "out" myself. I have listed myself as an atheist on my Facebook page and a couple of cousins are "friends." I dread the thought of them blabbing to my elderly grandmother- oy! I still struggle with whether I should be "out" on my Facebook page considering all my childhood friends are Xian and I went to an Xian college too. And that I live and work in the heart of the bible belt. Yes, I do have atheist friends and they are very near and dear to me. But don't underestimate the trauma that coming out is going to have on you. I'm in counseling to deal with all the emotions and I'd advise that for you too. All the best... Dear Student- I have walked your path. The hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life was tell my very Church of Christ mother that I was an atheist. I had successfully hidden it from her for about 15 years. I had dodged and avoided and used the “temporary crisis of faith” excuse and finally, I just got tired of the lies. Mom cried and cried and said her heart was broken because she won’t see me in heaven. My sister had the same reaction. My grandfather is an elder in the church and he died last year still thinking I was a believer. It was just too hard to think about breaking his heart. He wouldn’t have understood. At his funeral I cried as I had never cried before, mainly because of all the crazy crap my family was saying to each other at the religious funeral- i.e. you’ll see him again soon, he’s in heaven in a mansion now, etc. My husband is also an atheist and is very supportive and he literally held me up during the service. Most of my extended family still doesn’t know and I just don’t have the energy to assertively “out” myself. I have listed myself as an atheist on my Facebook page and a couple of cousins are “friends.” I dread the thought of them blabbing to my elderly grandmother- oy! I still struggle with whether I should be “out” on my Facebook page considering all my childhood friends are Xian and I went to an Xian college too. And that I live and work in the heart of the bible belt.

Yes, I do have atheist friends and they are very near and dear to me. But don’t underestimate the trauma that coming out is going to have on you. I’m in counseling to deal with all the emotions and I’d advise that for you too. All the best…

]]> By: Paul http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51545 Paul Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:33:01 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51545 There are a ton of responses to your letter here. I can add no insight or perspective, but I would like to recommend a podcast called Reasonable Doubts. All three of the hosts are former Christians, very intelligent and offer the philosophies and observations that you could use right now. They are not disdainful nor disparaging of religions. I can not recommend it enough. There are a ton of responses to your letter here. I can add no insight or perspective, but I would like to recommend a podcast called Reasonable Doubts. All three of the hosts are former Christians, very intelligent and offer the philosophies and observations that you could use right now. They are not disdainful nor disparaging of religions. I can not recommend it enough.

]]> By: Cheryl http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51541 Cheryl Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:27:42 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51541 It's a detailed way of saying, "and then life will go on". All those things are just normal happenings of life. It’s a detailed way of saying, “and then life will go on”. All those things are just normal happenings of life.

]]> By: Flea http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51539 Flea Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:11:42 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51539 Good point. That quote is not only too vague but dangerous. Good point. That quote is not only too vague but dangerous.

]]> By: Len http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/02/coming-out-of-the-skeptical-closet/#comment-51529 Len Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:50:32 +0000 http://unreasonablefaith.com/?p=5765#comment-51529 That's right :-) That’s right :-)

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