Some of our readers may be interested in attending the Sexual Orthodoxy conference put on by Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. You’ll get to hear messages like:
- The Politics of Sodomy — “In what sense is same-sex temptation and sin an ordinary problem in a fallen world? And in what sense is it a manifestation of high rebellion against heaven?”
- The Politics of Fruitfulness — “In what ways are obedient churches the only life-affirming cultures on earth?”
- Sentimentalism and the Feminine Ethos — “Since the early nineteenth century, the feminine ethos has been dominant in the American church. Why is this, and what can be done about it?”
- Abortion: The Blood Sacrifice of Egalitarianism — “If we are not trusting in the blood of Jesus Christ, there will be a need for blood from elsewhere.”
- Can Translations and Commentaries Be Disobedient? — “We too often want to reduce our controversies to a matter of mere academic disagreement. But on some issues, the problem really is one of our love for Jesus growing cold. In what sense can we say this about our gender-neutral translations?”
I think they misnamed this conference. It should have been: “THE DEADLY SINS OF SEXUALITY AND HOW ITS DESTROYING THE CHURCH.” That matches up a little better with the session titles, and has the added benefit of attracting double the fundies!
Matt: I find it very interesting that there are so many people out there with such sad lives as to sit... 
Tyrrlin: Wow… I’d like to buy apostrophes for most of those commenters. Apparently belief in a... 
Mathurine: I’m not so sure that they wouldn’t have. The father in the case is... 
JonJon: I agree. 
Siberia: That’s a question I always ask myself, though in other contexts, would I still be me if I’d... 
Mark Mukasa: I love the Paine pun. xD Awesome article. 
mikespeir: Amen, and amen. 
nomad: “Which is really unexpected and fascinating, when you think about it.” And don’t forget... 
90 Comments
OHNOES NOT THE BUTTSECKS.
Orthodoxy: marching proudly to the 5th century.
LMAO!
Mornin’ LRA!
lulz!
Have you read this: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
(Sorry if the C&P doesn’t work, I can never remeber tagging.)
The whole natural vs. unnatural debate seems to miss the point. Mental illness is natural as is physical disability but that doesn’t mean that we don’t try and ‘cure’ it. Belief in a particular god doesn’t seem natural but you don’t here the clamour for believers to be ‘cured’. There’s a much better case for saying belief is a life style choice than being gay.
It’s all really about muddying the waters to say it’s not what we hate gays, because our holy text says we should, but it’s not natural so that somehow justifies persecution of a group of people. It’s the same with the current assisted suicide debate we are having here in the UK. I wish certain believers would just be honest and say I don’t support it because my faith says all life is sacred in the eyes of god etc. etc. Personally I wish they would just butt out of other people’s lifes and let them make their own choices instead of trying to impose their own personally values on others through law. My father spent the last few weeks of his life in agony and I’m sure if he had the option he would have ended his life sooner — that would have been his choice and his choice alone.
I particularly like the one about the feminists. Dirty feminists, back in your cages!!
Seriously, there are actually people who go in for this stuff? How can what I can only assume would be a more pro-equality stance rather than a pro-feminist stance be considered a bad thing?
In fact, I would call that conference
“HOW EVE AND STEVE ARE CONDEMNING US TO HELL AGAIN”
For the followers of the “god of love”, these guys really know how to suck all the joy, happiness and love out of life ):
So gays are really rebelling against God, abortion is really a blood sacrifice, and women should get back into the kitchens.
Okay then.
Before making travel plans, note that the conference is in Idaho, not Iowa.
Man, I was thinking of moving to Idaho. I guess you just can’t escape the crazy anywhere in this country.
Idaho was a hotbed for white supremacists in the 80s and 90s. Maybe it still is, but they haven’t been in the news much lately.
Please keep a open mind about Idaho. We do have a reputation for being very backward and it is partly deserved, but things have changed a LOT over the past twenty years! I’ve lived here for 56 years and am AMAZED at the progressive attitude in towns like Boise and the Sun Valley area.
We have a VERY long way to go but, so does much of the rest of America.
Nearly the only part of Idaho I saw was Moscow. I had to live in *Pullman* (take the lower half of the lowest common denominator of rude drunky college students, lower the bar a bit, and get the middle common denominator of WSU students. Drunky loudmouths, talking in class even after being asked to keep it down, my biology TA actually had to tell the class that grammar and spelling mistakes in biology lab reports were unacceptable.), and Moscow was nicer. The town center showed a pleasant former-hippie influence in the shops and restaurants. Someone chatted with me on the street, asked where I was from, and rapidly fired back, “Oh Pullman’s boring!” I agreed.
Doh!
I thought the Iowa Supreme Court had done enough to separate Iowa as progressive from the rest of the flyover states.
put on by Christ Church in Moscow, IA
Ahem, that would be Moscow, ID.
The Politics of Sodomy — “In what sense is same-sex temptation and sin an ordinary problem in a fallen world?…”
Odd, I don’t seem to find same-sex a temptation. Maybe it’s just me. Maybe it’s just that a huge proportion of Evangelicals are self-denying, self-hating closeted gays.
I love this little Americanism: You feel the need to put the name of a country after a major world capital – London, England; Paris, France – when literally ANYBODY who isn’t either American or a total retard knows fine well where London and Paris are. And yet! You abreviate the names of your states to two letters after the name of a US city, like anybody who isn’t either American or a complete nerd is going to know where those cities are! Amazingly introverted people that you are, it’s almost endearing :-)
I hope you’re not suggesting that anything exists outside of America. I find that concept highly offensive and infringing on my freedom.
Kansas City, Kansa and Kansas City, Missouri. Not the same town, not the same state! What about Alyesbury, England? It’s not commonly known so it’s beneficial to know what country it’s in. These footnotes exist for a reason and despite however much you want to think it indicates introversion, it doesn’t.
Bad example. I happen to have been born in Aylesbury. It’s the county town of Buckinghamshire.
I’m not talking about small towns though, am I? I mean if you don’t know where London is, you’ve got no bloody hope! Similarly, is there any reason that a non-American should know what the initials “IA” stand for? I would say not. We don’t know what the fifty states are all called.
No one out of England would know what/where Alyesbury is. I was aiming for a small town, but I didn’t really want to search 30 minutes for an example.
The point is that those things are useful to have. There’s a town of Paris in Ontario(Canada), and a Paris in Kiribati(Kiribati), and a handful of other examples, like a London in Ontario. Just because something is famous doesn’t mean it’s the one we’re referring to.
I don’t know what the deal is with abbreviating the states, though. No one here knows more than a couple of the abbreviations anyway.
Once I’m ruler of the universe, everybody will know where Aylesbury is. There will be a shrine in one of the delivery suites at Aylesbury General Hospital.
*Sips Kool Aid*
Curiously, there’s a Washington in Brazil. Also a New York.
Aylesbury … lovely town, honest … :-?
Hell I didn’t even know the abbreviation for Idaho — I got it wrong the first time, and then had to look the damn thing up. And yet I still put it instead of just typing it out.
I blame public education. And my private education. And my religious education.
Hmm, anything else I can blame this on?
Oh yeah, I blame it on it Custador because now whenever I read his name I’m going to think of his whips and handcuffs.
Ontario(Canada)
Speaking of which, there are two of “Ontario, CA,”
CA = Canada
CA = California
http://www.seattlepi.com/fun/mutts.asp?date=20090711
Ooops. Guess I had trouble finding it too.
http://www.seattlepi.com/fun/mutts.asp?date=20090710
Alyesbury, Bucks isn’t but London probably is … :-)
Like I just said above, even saying London isn’t self-explanatory because there’s a dozen or more examples of Londons(towns!) that aren’t in England.
I would argue, though, that it’s only if you’re not talking about the obvious one that you should need to qualify it further. Most people when you say “Paris” don’t assume you mean Paris, Texas (note it wasn’t that much extra effort to type Texas than TX) but kind of assume you mean the nice one with the Louvre, the Tour d’Eiffel, the Rue de Rivolli, Angelina’s cafe, Notre Damme cathedral, and all the other things that make Paris such an all around fantastic place.
Incidentally, if you do ever visit Paris and you have a sweet tooth, I can recommend Angelina’s on Rue de Rivolli. Try the Mont Blanc washed down with a Chocolat Afrique. You’ll be on the biggest sugar rush of your life within seconds.
We wouldn’t have this problem if Americans weren’t so lazy and would have come up with original names instead of taking the names of European towns and using each of them 15 times.
Dude, they didn’t even name their own country, you want them to name their cities?!
I mean… “United States of America”? Really? All your continent are belong to us!
Hey now! Just you wait a minute there mister!
We stole plenty of town names from the natives here too!
Sheesh…..
They are the same town. The Kansas / Missouri state line runs through the middle of Kansas City.
While I agree with the basic point, we’re talking about Moscow, Idaho here. There’s a far more famous Moscow that even most Americans have heard of that it needs to be distinguished from.
And it’s not like the Brits don’t do the same thing. We expect people to do the minimal amount of work neccessary to translate “Oxon” or “Leics” into a real county name; why shouldn’t other countries do the same?
Why shouldn’t other countries do the same — well we did have The Empire I think you’ll find!
Indeed. We almost took you back when you “elected” GWB the first time, then decided that we didn’t want the populace of any nation stoopid enough to let that happen!
It’s almost as though the US was going to become a NEET so would need their parents to look after them. Fortunately, after eight years mind — what took them so long, they finally came to their senses. Then again maybe Berlusconi is trying to show that GWB wasn’t that bad after all. I’m just waiting for when he tries it on with Carla Bruni and a fight breaks out.
The Politics of Fruitfulness — “In what ways are obedient churches the only life-affirming cultures on earth?”
In how many ways can we presume a conclusion we find comfortable, and then make up excuses why it might be true?
I registered as Fr33 Think3r. The system does not reqire payment. Why did I waist my time?
If it would make you feel better, you can pay me…
What no seminar about – “Spontaneous Sexual Vocalizations: Does shouting your partners name lead to proper Marriage partnering, or feed the sin of Pride?”
Or: “Spontaneous Sexual Vocalizations: How to Worship God With All Your Strength”
lol!
What I find interesting is the fundamentalists are using the method of portraying thousands of years of heterosexual and patriarchal hegemony as countercultural to the world. It is a great PR move to say that their bigotry is the radical way of living and everyone else is status quo. Everybody wants to be a revolutionary.
Wait, there’s more! When people chastise them for their bigotry they can play the Martyr too!
How can so many have so much self-hate they have to make all others supper??
“In what sense is same-sex temptation and sin an ordinary problem in a fallen world? And in what sense is it a manifestation of high rebellion against heaven?”
What??? Sorry no temptation here-tried it not my thing like girls better.
SIN is a made up pile of BS used to control others to be less. There is only one
‘SIN’- HARMING OTHERS, all else is BS, and harming yourself is just stupid.
How do you rebel against nothing???? located nowhere???
“In what ways are obedient churches the only life-affirming cultures on earth?”
The BIG3 are the biggest bunch of death cults I ever seen!!!!
“Since the early nineteenth century, the feminine ethos has been dominant in the American church. Why is this, and what can be done about it?”
Oh those evil, disgusting, menstruating, unclean, bringers of suffering!!!
How can we ever beat them into submission???? dumb american laws!!!! ;-)
* Abortion: The Blood Sacrifice of Egalitarianism — “If we are not trusting in the blood of Jesus Christ, there will be a need for blood from elsewhere.”
WTF??? I think they mean killing babies is bad??? Couldn’t agree more.
But the dirty little secret of the ancient cultures that gave rise to the BIG3 is that until the age of 12 you aren’t worth shit. there was a greater then 75% chance you would not make it to 12. The baby death rate was so plucking high that abortion was not an issue and in reality still isn’t. A fetus is a POTENTIAL. Look up the definition of a parasite!! It HER body-HER efforts – HER PAIN – HER guilt or not – HER CHOICE!!! Period.
“We too often want to reduce our controversies to a matter of mere academic disagreement. But on some issues, the problem really is one of our love for Jesus growing cold. In what sense can we say this about our gender-neutral translations?”
Sorry but I may be a little off on this one but I swear I hear …….
“Is beating or killing THEM really to far to go???” inside this comment.
If the church objection to abortion had anything to do with morality instead of one more way to keep women in their proper place than the pope would have been spending every morning handing out condoms outside the Vatican instead of trying to stop their distribution in AIDS ridden areas of Africa.
I love Christians. They validate me. I’m an extreme pervert – I currently have two genital piercings (one of which is actually a 4mm flesh tunnel), and have had three others before, I own a large collection of sex toys including handcuffs, blindfolds, whips, dildos, bondage tape, naughty underwear, lube – you name it, I have one somewhere. Myself and my partner have done literally done anything and everything in the name of good sex – stuff that would make a whore blush – but according to the church, I’m still as pure as the driven snow because I’m one man and my partner is one woman. On the other hand, two men who kiss on the lips? Going straight to hell. Love it.
Oh, and on the abortion thing: Infants don’t become self aware until between nine and ten months AFTER being born. Until that point, they’re essentially animals.
TMI. :)
I knew someone was going to say “TMI”. The acronym of course went through my mind, but I didn’t write it. I really like the post.
I was thinking about saying: S,YTMO. I went with the other.
TL;DR
I have no clue what any of those acronyms mean (except TMI) :D
TLDR = too long; didn’t read… not sure about S,YTMO
So, You Tickle My … Olmo?
Probably not.
Sorry, You Turn Me Off?
Stop, you’re turning me on.
Ding!
Even if I do say so myself.
Ha, disregard that. Wrong thread.
Disregarding the minor detail that the meaning was the complete opposite, I was pretty close. EIIDSSM.
Yes that’s the only reason I got it.
…even if I didn’t… steal some mayonnaise?
You got the first 42.9% right.
Bonus for creative effort.
…say so myself?
Even if I do say so myself
… and they’re not acronmys!
Acronyms are abbreviations that are pronounced like words, such as NATO, radar, scuba. TMI, WTF, etc. are just abbreviations.
You forgot Tardis!
I did. :(
Actually, Daniel hit it accurately on the head when he said the conference should be named “THE DEADLY SINS OF SEXUALITY AND HOW ITS DESTROYING THE CHURCH.” That describes it and the beliefs behind it quite well.
Preventing abortion is just a way to be punitive to women without being punitive to men, “punishment” for having sex by being forced to have a baby they didn’t want.
I was puzzled by the horror of the “feminine ethos” in a church run mostly by men: I couldn’t figure out anything feminine about it, until re-read the word “sentimentalism”. Does this mean christians are gonna drop any scraps of compassion they may call “sentiment” and get *even nastier*?
It’s all about crushing sexuality, which might be too life-affirming for people when they are out of church, and not need church any more. Their question “In what ways are obedient churches the only life-affirming cultures on earth?” should be an alarm to people that the doublespeak described in George Orwell’s “1984″ has already been here.
(If it isn’t, just notice the people who probably call themselves loving christians flaming and spewing hatred on this board.)
I’m not sure it is about crushing sexuality. I think it is more about preserving historical power structures.
I was puzzled by the horror of the “feminine ethos” in a church run mostly by men: I couldn’t figure out anything feminine about it, until re-read the word “sentimentalism”.
The significant majority of church members in America are women, but I doubt that’s what they had in mind. You’re probably right about their misogynistic agenda in this respect.
Wow. Reading the other sessions is actually more disturbing than the sample Daniel posted. What is it with these guys and their obsession with “feminine ethos”? Do women scare them that much that they have to assert a medieval–nay, Stone Age approach to women that fairly screams, “I’m so far in the closet I’m finding Christmas presents!”?
Christmas presents? They’re finding the secret door to Narnia and chatting to Mister Tumnus, they’re so deep in the closet!
You have to come out at some point.
I noticed it’s all men covering these delightful topics and in only one hour! I and bet no women even attend, because the faithful wives will be maintaining the home while the guys go off to discuss all the “Important matters” I’d love to hear the Q & A afterwards.
Christians are not alone. I just read an article (It was in Hebrew so I wont bother you with the link) about a speech by some famous rabbi who explained to the crowd that a woman should have a minimum of 12 kids and should start popping them out ASAP. Apparently it’s horribly wrong to delay having kids until you are ready to take care of them financially or finish school (well, women shouldn’t go to college and have careers anyway so no problem there) it is also wrong to wait between kids or stop having kids when you get older since doctors are lying about the elevated risk of birth defects in babies of women over 40.
This fool wants a woman to have twelve kids??!!?? Yeah, if he had a vagina and had EVER had a child or been present when a woman was having a child, he’d change his mind (or so I hope).
I think the most depressing line is “5:30 – 7:33: Dinner on your own”.
How do they enforce that?
I did my undergraduate at University of Idaho in Moscow Idaho. This was part of a usually quiet community. However, about once a year one man from the community would put a collar and leash on his wife and parade her around the university campus preaching about how women should follow their husbands. I wonder if that still happens?
Sounds less like a fundy and more like one of Custador’s friends.
Good times.
Nah. Fundie Christybums wouldn’t really last long among people so liberal!
My favorite lecture is:
“11:00-Noon – Why Women Make Better Women Ministers Than Men Do”
Really? That’s a lecture?
Ok, so I’ve been going to school in Moscow, ID for 4 years. I helped to rebrand the Atheist and Agnostics club, renaming it and heading The FreeThought Society. I get a bunch of emails from the fundies in that town looking to debate somebody about Christ or God or morality. The zealousness of these residents are quite amazing. I like to make it a point of avoid people like this who are only going to ignore the other side of whatever debate is taking place. They are only looking to upstage and ignore the secular or scientific inquires that one makes.
I hate to see our little town make the news for something like this. Makes me want to do some fundie-pastafarianism.
Keep up the good work! Have a beer to celebrate the fact that you’re not in Pullman!
I think a lot of them rebel against religion, but somehow getting all drunky-ass and rude and spreading leg for anything still warm with signs of life that uses the lamest lines doesn’t impress me.
But what do they say about eating the weasel? Inquiring minds want to know.
I’m IN Moscow, ID right now!