Educated women have fewer children, are wealthier and are less likely to accept fundamentalist extremism. If we want a safer world, we should consider the utility of spending dollars on educating young people as an alternative to troops and weapons.
—Lawrence M. Krauss, “How Women Can Save the Planet“
4,000 subscribers. 10,000 daily views.
JonJon: I agree. Would I Still Be an Atheist?
Siberia: That’s a question I always ask myself, though in other contexts, would I still be me if I’d... Would I Still Be an Atheist?
Mark Mukasa: I love the Paine pun. xD Awesome article. The Most Blasphemous Book Ever Written
mikespeir: Amen, and amen. The Most Blasphemous Book Ever Written
nomad: “Which is really unexpected and fascinating, when you think about it.” And don’t forget... Would I Still Be an Atheist? nomad: A parasitic meme that invades the mind and uses the host to propagate itself through transmission to others.... Would I Still Be an Atheist?
Jabster: @JonJon That’s not something that is limited to theocratic societies but includes any society in which... Would I Still Be an Atheist? JonJon: You had better, and yet often people don’t. Even the most theocratic society will have nonbelievers, or... Would I Still Be an Atheist?
|
|
|
30 Comments
What about educated men? Especially educating those who think that a woman’s only place is home, barefoot and prego.
Let me clarify – I ask because there are many countries where men don’t want women to have fewer children or be wealthy, especially if that would make them more powerful then men. Men need to realize that these things would benefit them and society as a whole. It’s a culture shift.
It’s an interesting trend. Gives a whole new meaning to “ignorance breeds ignorance”…
I’m liking Krauss more and more each time I see something he has written/said. Clever guy, it seems.
I’m not sure that having less children is a good thing. Europeans are already having too few children and their countries’ native populations are shrinking at alarming rates. At the same time, Muslim immigrants in Europe are increasing in number. If we encourage people to breed less, we won’t really get many more intelligent and educated people since they will die off pretty soon anyway. We can only expect more religious fundies, but of a different (and more violent) religion.
I’m pretty sure 9 billion people by 2050 would be bad thing.
Also, religious people are not less intelligent than other folks. (Well, at least not religious people brought up to believe in X) Immigrants might have worse education, and they ARE more likely to be deluded (if they were brought up in a culture where religion is more common) when it comes to gods, and quite possibly other areas as well.
However, I see this as an excellent opportunity to deconvert them :-) I’d rather not go to Turkey (for example) “preaching” atheism.
Finally, I think Christianity is no less violent than any other religion. Please forgive me if this came out rather messily. My brain demands sleep.
Gawd, it did come out messily. Not quite sure what point I’m trying to make.
The first five minutes of Idiocracy are terrifying.
Depends where you are referring to: where I am, getting fewer children is definitely the better option. The current average is 6.7 kids per woman. 50% of the population is under 15. There simply isn’t enough food for everyone and our farming methods are probaly what the Americans used in the 1600-1700s: hand hoes and oxen when you are more advanced, and 80%+ of the population is rural, depending on subsistence agriculture. Of course you may argue that in the end it should balance because child mortality is high, and the average life-span just above 50. Still, I’m for fewer kids, longer lives. This is mostly achievable through education. If you don’t believe that fewer people are good for our part of the world, you need to visit some slum in Nairobi (yes, we have the biggest in Africa-Kibera, and you can even go on a ‘poverty tour’) or anywhere near Owino Market/the New Park in Kampala.
On the contrary, some developed nations in the West are resorting to immigration to keep their economies competitive (at least that’s what I think, that it’s not because they are nice that they give ‘greencards’!), others are persuading women to have more kids with like 9 months paid maternity leave in some parts of Europe-1 year in Germany.
Have you heard of the quiverfull movement?
Yes, ridiculous movement
“I’m not sure that having less children is a good thing”
As Erik said, in a global sense, it is.
“Europeans are already having too few children and their countries’ native populations are shrinking at alarming rates.”
It depends. Alarming for who? Are you assuming that “native populations” better than immigrants? Remember: if it’s well done -through education mostly- immigrant’s sons are also native population.
“At the same time, Muslim immigrants in Europe are increasing in number”
Yeah. Not as increasing as some people thinks. Anyway… christian immigrants in Europe are also increasing in number, and probably even atheist immigrants :-)
“If we encourage people to breed less, we won’t really get many more intelligent and educated people since they will die off pretty soon anyway”
I’m not sure, but no one said that we should encourage people to breed less. It’s a fact that educated people, specially when the women are educated and with equal rights, knowing anticonceptive methods, they tend to breed less. In fact, those “european countries” you are refering to are trying to encourage more breeding.
[Not literal, but I think your words imply] Those “muslims” that are “menacing our viewing of the world” -sic, do you really bought that??- are having a great number of sons. Their sons are having sons at few more than the average, and probably their great-sons are having the average. And they are not any more immigrants. Having muslims in mostly christian or non-religious countries is going to generate some fundies -in BOTH sides- but it’s also an opportunity for them to think again their religiosity and, perhaps, to de-convert
wow – *some*bodie’s a flippin’ racist. Oh you’ll deny it but you know it’s true.
It really has very little if anything to do with race (and since when is “Muslim” a race, anyway?). These demographic trends have more to do with faith and poverty. I recall back in my undergraduate days doing a project on the educational system in Israel. One of the most startling trends was the resurgence of Orthodox Yeshivot as an alternative to public or state-sponsored religious schools, and the professor pointed out that the demographic trend behind it was simply that the Haredim had many more children, on average, than the adherents of more moderate flavors of Judaism, not to mention secular Jews.
Generally speaking, wherever you are, you can link increased birthrates to either poverty (abundance depresses birth rates; Malthus was wrong), or strict adherence to one of the popular Monotheistic Three.
Another very good argument along these lines:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/opinion/29kristof.html
I wholeheartedly second this.
Widespread education is the key to a better world.
And a lot better (and cheaper) than bombing people.
Hey cool, I’ve been learning about this sort of economic thought recently; improving the education and employment prospects of women is one of the best ways to end poverty, improve development, and curb overpopulation. What a shame that tribal patriarchy and the suppression of women pervades even the most developed and freethinking cultures…
Let’s just make sure that it doesn’t go to the extreme of China – where people can only have 1 kid by law and they kill the ones they don’t want.
Then again, if they kill all the females, there won’t be many to make babies in the future, so the population may curb itself two-fold. There’s a paradox for you.
Neither of the things you said about China are actually true.
To be fair, China did used to have a one-child policy, with permission required to have more. If more were had, they were taken and placed in “orphanages”, which are reputed to have been pretty brutal places where deaths were common. I accept that that’s a big difference from actually taking a child and murdering it, but I can see where DC got his misconceptions.
Actually I know that they repealed the law some time ago. I met a girl from China who was one of three, which she said was very unusual and frowned upon, even after the law was revoked. She did say, however, that China was debating reinstating the law because of the population boom that happened when the law was repealed. That was a year ago and I haven’t heard about it since then.
Besides, didn’t you guys read about that baby soup they were making??? =P
Custador, what does your screen name mean?
In addition, in some rural parts of China gaping population differences have been reported. Typically it follows the pattern of too many single males and a lack of eligible young females.
“it follows the pattern of too many single males and a lack of eligible young females”
I have the same problem in spain, but maybe my conception is biased :-p
This Lawrence M. Krauss? Smart man.
Women are the root of all evil.
-Why did Jeffery Dohmer kill all those people? His got mommy (women) issues.
-Why do the radical Islamists hate us and want to blow us up? So they can go to heaven and spend some quality time with 72 virgins. (again, more women).
-Why is God going to destroy the world in 2012? Because too much of the world has embraced the Gays. And they turned gay because women rejected them and they have mommy issues. (more women).
-Why do so many men lie, cheat, steal and rob for money, so they can buy more things to impress the ladies, again, women caused all the bad things to happen on Wall Street.
-Why do nations go to war, so they can get more stuff and impress more ladies.
You see, women can save the planet, by making themselves more accessible to us men and be submissive to our demands. Obey goddamit!!
Good luck – with an attitude like that, no wonder you are having trouble with the ladies.
Perhaps he was being facetious?
Yep. Yer obligated to go out with any wacko that wants to, or he might kill you while you’re working out. Remember, you asked for it!
6 billion isn’t enough people; it’s yer duty to squeeze out babies as yer patriotic duty.
“How women can save the planet?” Heh. Since it seems to me like almost NO one is talking about overpopulation anymore, I thought maybe they’d try to brainwash women in other ways, like maybe encouraging educated middle-class or upper-class ones to squeeze out more babies for their country.
Not too far from the hints floating around when that wacko killed several women in a health club because no one would go out with his crazy, sorry ass, that maybe the women were responsible because they had nothing to do with him… you know, ignoring him, refusing him, and hurting his feelings and all.