We heard about Pastor Wiley Drake praying for God to kill Obama. Now it seems others are too. There’s a cafepress gift shop with slogans like “Pray for Obama – Psalm 109:8″ which seems to be Christianese for “Kill the President.” Psalm 109:8 says:
May his days be few; may another seize his position. (NRSV)
Of course God works in mysterious ways and often needs his followers to do his dirty work. So if this movement gets enough momentum, it’s only a matter of time before some lunatic tries to act on this “biblical advice.”
The ironic thing, of course, is that these Christians seem forget one of Jesus’ main teachings: “Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you.” (Luke 6:24)
(via)
Tyler!: Sooooo who exactly are they taking our country back from??? And i am in the process of moving so... 
NoYourGod: Yerp – nuthin’ saiz “patriotic” like “love it or leave... 
LawnBoy: Gee.. when exactly was this golden age of pureness in politics and the reign of common sense? 
Daniel Florien: So why aren’t you out in Montana with a bomb shelter, stocked food, and tons of ammunition? 
nazani14: Things that can’t go on forever don’t. Following the record heat, the power outages in the D.C.... 
Nelly: my apologies for using “duplicate” way too many times………..I really wish... 
Ty: Please. A moon hoaxer talking about good science? “I personally do not believe that we can prove that... 
105 Comments
That is disgusting.
It gets better. Go ahead and look up the Psalm passage in context. Especially the very next line.
why would I do that? That wouldn’t be cherry-picking, and therefore wouldn’t be consistent with how the xtians do it…
Psalm 109:9, Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
I went to read the whole psalm 109. This is just spite. Spite spite spite. That’s the whole thing. If you are a bad person to me, I pray that god makes you sorry 1,000,000x over, and your whole family 4eva and evah, Nyah nyah nyah. How ridiculously immature! On the interwebs, you’d be called a drama llama and told GTFO! Get over it, you Christian crybabies, you’re embarrassing yourselves.
“Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you.” (Luke 6:24)
Notice that it doesn’t say anything about doing good to those you hate. Christians are all about technicalities.
Do they apply that to people of other religions… say, Muslims?
They are not real humans, so don’t count.. I mean, they don’t even have a soul!!
No, waaait!!
That’s just a prescription not a law so only XXX had to follow it, but when Jesus came and saved everyone, you are not bound to follow it anymore!
/sarcasm
Go to the CafePress main site and complain to CafePress about ibjectionable content on the http://shop.cafepress.com/psalm-109 site. They have the power to ban dangerous material.
Dangerous is kind of a stretch; after all, it can be interpreted (out-of-context) as meaning that they merely hope for him to be a one term president. Given how good the average Christian is at knowing the Bible in context, I’m willing to bet most of them that run with this meme mean that and not the squickier, morally-depraved call for assassination it clearly is. If they really meant that, they would quote this together with 109:9. In any case, anyone contemplating taking a shot at a president has enough screws loose that this is hard to blame for being any sort of sewriosu contributing factor.
I find it merely asinine.
But we needn’t encourage people like that – it might make them feel legitimate in their craziness.
Bah. Censoring people because their ideas are bad never helps, and barring that, the only people that are “legitimating” this garbage have already done so to one another a hundred times over. For any given idea, I’m sure it’s possible to find sufficient legitimation from some source or other; people do what they want, and the justifications come afterward.
yes, this is an example of exactly the kind of thing I just can’t jibe in my head. Loving god…but let’s pray his kids are fatherless. You know, paganism says whatever bad thing you wish will come back on you 3 times. Plus xtians say how can atheists be moral unless tye have god to tell them what is right & wrong? Yet here I sit, an “un”beliver, (as if I had no beliefs), yet I belive it’s absoltley hateful & unloving to wear a t-shirt for god’s sake! wishing someone’s kids will be orphans & have to beg for food. I mean, can’t they just mumble it under their breath like all the other crazies downtown?
That is just so unfortunate.
Hang on, but isn’t that treason? Because I seem to recall quite a lot of rabid reichpublitards and fundies calling for people to be arrested for treason when they criticised Bush – and nobody was actually calling for him to get killed.
nobody was arrested because they were using their freedom of speech to intelligently criticize his policies and actions, instead of just insighting hate for no reason (because there is no legitimate reason to insight hate!).
Oh wait, there I go being moral again.
when they criticised Bush – and nobody was actually calling for him to get killed.
…
nobody was arrested because they were using their freedom of speech to intelligently criticize his policies and actions
Oh, please. I heard many people say very stupid and violent things about regarding what they wished would happen/what they wish they could do to Bush the Lesser during those dark times. Up to and including assassination.
It’s just straight-up hypocrisy, with both parties having a few winners and a whole lot of losers and nary a consistent stance on criticism and/or loyalty.
Why do people take things to such extremes? I guess it makes for good stories and gets people to watch your show or read your article… but it’s destructive to our country.
And I agree that anyone calling for assassination of a president is mentally/emotionally off the deep end and should be prosecuted for treason. Even if I don’t like the guy (or gal), I wouldn’t want him to be killed!
Why do people take things to such extremes?
I was having this very conversation with my S.O. yesterday. To the extent that you can blame anyone, the media has managed to position themselves as the happy pusher for fear and loathing junkies. To hear them (and the expert/blowhards they invite on for the ritual appeals to authority) tell it, we are all gonna die a million different ways before tomorrow, but for the grace of God/America/Democracy/Capitalism, all of whom are under siege and face existential threats from every corner.
It is much more effective at getting people excited than the odd rational discussion of the actual issues and troubles of the day, taking into account their inconveniently less-than-apocalyptic and yet serious scope.
Why do people bring things to such extremes?
Because it gives us identity, purpose and at the same time absolves us from responsibility.
Yeah. It’s not these fruitcakes talking to God that bothers me. It’s when he starts talking back!
I found this t-shirt on the same website:
http://www.cafepress.com/+antihate_tshirt,417804848
Solid, except the “stop the hate” at the end blunts it slightly with corniness.
I was wondering how long it would be before Daniel or someone posted this, dkos has been having some involved discussions about cafepress and zazzle I can;t believe they are getting away with this crap and have been fuming for 2 days. I just don’t know how I’ll react if I see one of these items for real =(
http://blog.cafepress.com/2009/11/20/psalm-1098-update/
Designs are off the website. Huzzah for reasonable people who see the harm in this idiocy.
It’s scary.
As much as I support total freedom of speech (for example, I don’t like laws against Holoaust denial) it creeps me out to think that this kind of propaganda would actually make violent actions more and more legitimate.
It’s to some extent similar to “hate speech” laws that say that you can’t advocate death or violence against of a particular subset of the population.
Horribly difficult (and dangerous) to implement, yet probably needed, because volume makes right.
Someone needs to read Romans 13.
I love how God saying “Thou Shalt Not Kill” comes off so Do as I say, not as I do.
Christians are just being Godly, following his example rather than his words. :P
We can always hope that Obama won’t be foolish enough to get on a convertible to go around the downtown area of a major city.
Odd how this trend didnt get started with Bush.
It didn’t START with Bush,or Obama things like this have been going on for years, but since Bush they have become perhaps more common,though that could just as easily be blamed on the internet, don’t forget Bush had a movie made about his own assassination which was released to quite a bit of fanfare mostly because it was protested against by his administration even if it never saw wide release.
People have the right to wear this crap, and we have the rights to criticize their taste and their judgment, to question their intent, and to point out their (select one answer):
a) hypocrisy
b) ignorance
c) malice
d) all of the above
I agree.
I prayed this prayer for an abusive, alcoholic, mother, neglecting her family,
2 months later she was killed in a head-on car crash. All of the boys were adopted into good homes. They are now raised and living healthy normal lives. One boy is my son. Jeremiah serves his country in Hawaii and is preparing for an IT career and college. God knows best, and He invites believers to participate in His plan through prayer, though sometimes the truth is hard to accept. Ultimately He wants the best for your life.
Obama’s got to go. But I wouldn’t advertise it.
I prayed this prayer…
That makes you a very sick person.
Then you didn’t pray the whole thing, Dwade. 12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
Oh, that’s right, you cherry-picker, you’re just a plain old Christian sicko. I can’t believe you prayed for someone to die, and you’re all like, look what a great father I am, I’m so proud of myself. What a waste of skin you are.
Kodie,
sorry to burst your Christian stereotype bubble. I only prayed these words:
May her days be few; may another seize her position.
Nothing in there about anyone dying.
“May her days be few” kind of implies, y’know, dying.
And, frankly, someone might pray for her to have a change of heart, not for someone else to take her place. But, whatever.
Yes but that would be nice and kind and charitable and others kinds of things that Christians are commanded to be.
You’re not bursting my bubble – you’re cherry-picking. You’re not taking the literal meaning of the word of god, there. It says in your bible that it is part of a whole threat.
You are truly a cold, perverted person who appears to have no conscience (ends justify the means). It’s ok for me to mug a guy on the street, steal his wallet, so that I can give it to my children who don’t get enough for christmas this year. Some moral code you’ve got. I only hope nobody’s praying for YOU.
You are a sick imbecile who should never be in charge of the care and feeding of a gnat, much less another human being.
Elem,
please explain….
If you actively prayed for God to harm another, then you are either malevolent or sick. It does not matter *at all* that something good comes out of it.
Read about the psalmist David, he used imprecatory prayers in battle.
Oh, David did it? Then it must be okay! He is an inspiration to us all. I mean he was an adulterer, a polygamist, a murderer, a warmonger… and of course he was a man after god’s own heart.
Just imagine what God must be like.
Yes, wow, God can redeem even the worst of people, God is awesome!
So you’ve gone from suggesting it’s okay because David did it, to he was “the worst of people”? What exactly are you arguing?
ARGH MUST… STOP… FEEDING… TROLL…
Yeah, David was kind of a dick too. Didn’t he have his buddy killed to sleep with his wife?
Yes and God forgave his sins after he confessed. God is awesome like that.
Awesome is not the word I would use for that.
But elemenope, God lets evil bastards off the hook! That’s awesome news when you’re an evil bastard.
God lets evil bastards off the hook! That’s awesome news when you’re an evil bastard.
That’s a good point.
yes, you see? there’s hope for all of us evil bastards.
Yes, but leave us out of it. You’re the one who claimed to be an evil bastard, not us.
Yes, because it’s far more important to believe a bronze-age tribal god than, y’know, actually be a good person. It doesn’t matter if you’re a bastard; you can be redeemed if you mouth the right words and believe the right delusions; but if you’re a good, charitable person and end believing the wrong tribal god, oh boy, ain’t you in trouble!
Only if you are predestined to go to heaven, no?
At the risk of sounding anti-intellectual, all I have to say to this is **puke** – I can’t read this destructive, hateful crap anymore – garbage in, garbage out – and I choose to read things that make me a better person, not one that wants to lose her lunch. Hateful xtians – find something useful to do or leave the room.
I did not pray for God to harm her, I prayed that He would intervene for the children, He did, His way.
Where does it say anything about doing good for the kids in those verses. Those verses are all about the parent dying and nothing else. I agree you are really in need of help before you do more harm to innocent people. Have you told those kids that you prayed for their mother to die? If you haven’t then you know it was wrong of you to do this.
Baconette,
I am sorry that you are misreading this passage and my response, I never prayed for their mother to die….please read the responses.
Lol yeah have read it and saw nothing about election or doing the kids any good. Stop hiding behind that skirt you seem to be wearing and say what you really want. It clearly states that the wife would become a widow and the children fatherless, if that isn’t asking for death what does it really mean. I bet if someone had said this when Bush was president you would have wanted them tried for treason.
I was not a huge Bush fan, and there was plenty of Bush bashing going on when he was prez. Didn’t bother me.
I think we are in translation debate here. The translation from NRSV (which Daniel posted) doesn’t support this argument.
I didn’t post the whole context. Beaconsbud is talking about the next verse which refers to making the person’s wife a widow and the children fatherless. And in verse 8 “may his days be few” is clearly saying “may he die soon.”
Oh OK, well I am just going to pray that he doesn’t get re-elected. He’s probably a great father.
Dannyboy,
Your post is misleading:
slogans like “Pray for Obama – Psalm 109:8″ which seems to be Christianese for “Kill the President.” Psalm 109:8 says:
May his days be few; may another seize his position. (NRSV)
This does not endorse killing anyone. He just wont get re-elected because he’s not worthy of re-election
The whole prayer certainly does. Isn’t it Christians that usually whine about the Bible being quote out of context? In this case, the context makes it oh so much worse.
I agree, it is harsh. But God’s not always a nice guy.
Not “harsh”. Murderous. Your God is a monster.
You call Him a monster, I call Him a righteous judge
You are froot loops.
Personally I think dwade is a made up persona by JonJon and brgulker to convince us that compared to some believers they are really rather sane … don’t fall into their trap!
HAHA! Jabster just made my day :)
If by “righteous” you mean “sociopathic”.
I’m glad all the judges I’ve known know more mercy than your particular flavor of tribal god.
I am going to stop feeding the troll now.
Daniel,
The Bible is a book about redemption, you have to read the complete text about the changed lives of people…or you are just as much in error as the Christianity that you despise.
uh huh, that’s what I thought.
uh huh, that’s what I thought.
Uh…huh?
Not sure where you are getting your information, but if Allah told you I haven’t read the Bible completely, you can tell him I’ve done so numerous times and then perhaps suggest he get his memory checked-up.
Or did you just pull that information out of your ass?
Not-feeding-troll fail, Dan.
Not that I blame you. That’s a serious case of SIWOTI right there.
Yeah it must have been something I ate last night.
Feed me Seymore!!
This is reminding me of Gluttony from Fullmetal Alchemist.
“Can I eat him, Lust?”
Before the press lays all the blame on the “right wing Christians” They might want to note that Psalm 109:8 is in the Old Testament and written before Christ was born. So how can it be a Christian attack on Obama? The politically correct press certainly wouldn’t want to blame the Jews for this,now would they? Why is it that anyone who says anything against Obama is automatically labeled a racist or Right wing Christian? We are no longer allowed to speak our thoughts for fear of offending the”PC Police”. Seems alot like the start of Nazi Germany. It’s time to take back this country before all our rights that our forefathers fought for are gone. The “Commie-crats” need to go………NOW!
By that reasoning, Genesis is not Christian because it is in the old testament. Are you prepared to apply that standard equally to all portions of the old testament, or only here and there when you happen to find that it suits your purposes? The Pastor involved is not a Jew or a Hindu or anything other than a Christian. What kind of game are you trying to play when you make such ridiculously false statements?
I think you are trying to lie to us and hope that nobody is smart enough to catch you in your lies. I think you know full well that the old testament is a vital part of Christianity, and pretending otherwise is such an obvious lie that indicates a couple of things about you as a person. For one, it says you can and will lie to defend your religion.. and for another, it says that you are remarkably stupid.
For once, I am in complete and utter agreement with you.
perfect, could not have stated this any clearer.
that went to J not Eor
Don’t worry, nobody will confuse you with intelligence.
So are you saying that Genesis is not Christian? Exodus? Leviticus? Pick a position and stick with it.
Remember, dwade.. you have linked your design and consultancy business to your chat handle here. That means that your words here may have an effect on your wallet and your employability. Even your phone number is available from that link. Your online craziness may turn around to bite your professional life on the ass.
> “We are no longer allowed to speak our thoughts for fear of offending the”PC Police”. Seems alot like the start of Nazi Germany.”
That’s the dumbest thing I heard this week.
Gain some perspective. Learn some history.
So how can it be a Christian attack on Obama?
Because it is Christians who are using it. Really, are you serious with this tripe?
Because they often are.
Want to criticize Obama? Fine. Do it. But do it intelligently, meaning criticizing his actual policies and actions rather than “BUT HE’S A COMMIE!” or “DEATH PANELS OMG” or “HE’S A MUSLIM!” or “HE’S NOT AMERICAN!” and other sensationalist crap like this.
When you throw baseless assertions out, sometimes so utterly ridiculous I know they are lies even though I live in another country and have no interest whatsoever in your politics, it shows how concerned you are about honest discourse rather than slurring thy opponents.
Or rather, do that all you want. You only strengthen his position and demean yourselves in the process. Go ahead.
That people would pray for the man to die says nothing about the man, only about those doing the praying.
You really are an idiot. When W was up there, we made intelligent well-reasoned criticisms against his policies and were shouted down as “un-American”. Now your side is braying and shouting like a pack of rabid animals, calling for the death of the president, and generally making baseless arguments.
Name one right that you’ve lose since the inauguration, you can’t do it because we haven’t lost any!
Throwing around words like “communist” or “nazi” is meaningless and just makes your side look even dumber. If you want to criticize, fine, but make well-reasoned intelligent arguments that can be debated, not the inane blather that you’ve been spreading.
Also, from my Jewish fiancee: “Tell those stupid Christians to stop stealing our religious texts and taking them out of context!”
You really are an idiot. When W was up there, we made intelligent well-reasoned criticisms against his policies and were shouted down as “un-American”.
Let’s not push this too far…when Bush the Lesser was prez, I heard plenty of less-than-articulate, ignorant, and/or malicious criticisms of him and his policies. Now, nobody seems to match the venom that American right-wingers seem to put into their whining when they are out of power, but let’s not pretend the left was all shiny-happy-people-holding-hands while making nuanced policy arguments and staying above the fray of personal attacks. It just wasn’t so.
I think his point was people didn’t even listen to the criticisms, no matter how intelligent they were, but they’re expecting respect now for even the crazy stuff.
Fair enough. The right has not exactly been big on nuance, even when they were in power. I for one don’t understand how people like George Will and Peggy Noonan, articulate nuanced writers, can stand to stand shoulder to shoulder with their party, given how vapid and anti-intellectual they’ve become.
FWIW, in case I haven’t been clear, I agree completely with the rest of what you said.
It’s not just Christians. I am Christian and I am not praying for his death, I am praying for his success. I have a friend who is not Christian who posted a “joke” asking the grim reaper to take his life. NOT FUNNY!!
crossroads, dwade, Doug, however you want to be known:
When you read the teachings of Jesus as we have them, do you get any sense whatsoever that Jesus would have ever prayed for the death of another, the barrenness of his children, etc.??
As a fellow Christian who’s read your comments here in this comment thread, I suggest that you spend some time reading up on what it means to read the bible Christologically. This t-shirt is just one example of many of Christians who are shaming Jesus because they fail to do so.
I, for one, share the sentiments of the atheists here who label this behavior as exactly what it is — hatred and hypocrisy.
One can only imagine how dwade might have treated Jesus had he been a contemporary of his, what with all that “love your neighbor,” “sell all that you have and follow me” business.
Not trying to plug my own blog, but this comic is pertinent and funny (and I don’t remember where I found it originally):
http://brgulker.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/hermeneutical-humor/
Yeah, I stumbled across that cartoon a while back. Tickled my funny bone, saved it to the HD.
This not Godly at all. In addition, President Obama is not our enemy, although we do not agree with him. If one is truly a Christian or of God, then you would pray for those that you do not agree with. 2 Tim. states that we ought to pray for those that are in authority over us and that applies to President Obama. Praying hatred is not Christian-like at all, but praying LOVE is. The word says that Love covers a multitude of sin. I know and believe that God is not like man and He will not honor such wicked prayer (Ps. 109), but will honor whatever comes from LOVE b/c He is love. I feel sorry for those that think like this. Be careful how you respond to others, remember, what one sows, they will reap back!
(pray pray pray) I really LOVE Brownies! (pray pray pray) Can I has one God? (pray pray pray)
(pray pray pray) God please smite Dari (pray pray pray) I LOVES them and don’t want them to fall astray from your path (pray pray pray)