This might be the best argument for God yet!
108. ARGUMENT FROM TINKERBELL
(1) I really want God to be real.
(2) If you wish for something really hard, it’ll come true.
(3) Therefore, God exists.
(source)
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33 Comments
There is actually something to this line of thought, let me explain. For instance, where does the “wanting it to be true” come from? Before you summarily dispense with that, give it a moment’s (sincere) consideration. Where does it come from? It comes from somewhere within us, but where/what is that “place” and how did it get in us if we are just temporal beings and mere blips on the cosmic radar screen in a vast universe of meaningless-ness?
Secondly, how is it that we have come to say things like “it’s too good to be true”? As opposed to “it’s so good, it MUST be true”? How has that former mindset come to over-rule the latter? Additionally, over its long history mankind (not just Christianity or religion) has produced an enormous archive of story’s/fables/lore/myth, etc that have illustrated in great detail some mysterious dimension call it “heaven”, or an alternative consciousness or whatever replete with breathtakingly beautiful fairy tale like imagery, etc. And where does the concept of romance and forever love come from, why would that also be “in” us if we are mere temporal blips, it just doesnt make any sense to me (but I realize I make no sense to any of you, lol).
I see this (indisputable vast archive) as a “treasure trail” or map of some sort that pleads with us to consider the “more” I speak of as “more” than a possibility, yea, even a reality if we will “hear” it from that mysterious, deep place within that we sometimes call our “heart”.
I would love to hear someone (anyone, just one) respond “from the heart” as opposed to your over-developed faculties of reason & logic (which has its place but is in desperate need of a break, lol).
My guess is that our desires, feelings, wants and emotions are generated by electrochemical signals within the brain. Do you have any reason to think that that’s not a sufficient answer, beyond “No, I’d be sad if thoughts weren’t being beamed into my head by God”?
From the heart: The garden is beautiful, even if there are no faeries at the bottom of it.
And why do logic and reason need a break? Are we curing too many diseases? Should oncologists says “hey, I’d really, really like it if there was no more cancer, so I’m just going to assume that’s the case, and stop treating my patients”?
Thanks for the response Winter, I appreciate you.
A couple of quotes from Carl Sagan may be pertinent here:
“I try not to think with my gut. If I’m serious about understanding the world, thinking with anything besides my brain, as tempting as that might be, is likely to get me into trouble.”
and:
“… And then I’m asked, ‘Yeah, but what do you really think?’ I say, ‘I just told you what I really think.’ ‘Yeah, but what’s your gut feeling?’ But I try not to think with my gut. Really, it’s okay to reserve judgment until the evidence is in.”
I liked what you said here, I’m inclined to lean this way with you. I, too, “feel” more than I “know” when it comes to God.
Hey, someone is agreeing with JC about religion?! Congrats, John!
Rob: You feel more than you know about God because there isn’t any way to know. Which is why most of us are atheists and agnostics.
Scoreboard Update:
JC-1, UF-100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (ad infinitum)
Don’t look now, I’m creepin’ up on ya! lol
Muslims, Hindus, Ancient Greeks all feel or felt God just like you do. Either every religion is correct (in which case Jesus isn’t the only way to Heaven), or only one is and God is incredibly capricious about feelings, or these feelings are, well, just feelings.
It all comes down to how the brain works. There are many instances where our brain “wants” something to be true, but it’s actually an illusion.
For example, if we hear about a terrible accident, we “want” to hear that something could have prevented it, or that the victim somehow deserved it. Even if it’s not entirely true.
If someone is the enemy of our enemy, we “want” to believe that that makes us allies, but in reality that’s not always the case.
If a product is endorsed by a celebrity we have positive feelings about (for example, Matt Damon), then we “want” to believe that the product is actually worth buying. Even though he is being paid for the endorsement.
Why do we want to believe God exists? Because it allows us to continue believing that the world is fair, that good things happen to good people, and bad things happen because people are bad. It allows us a false sense of safety and security. It allows us to feel that we are on the right team, that we belong to the right crowd, that “we” are better than “them.” These are all universal human biases and are just as likely to lead a person to become a Bolshevik as a Christian.
If from the heart means touchy-feely unproven spiritual BS, then don’t hold your breath. As to determining truth, I’ll stick to reason and logic because it works.
Why does reason and logic need a break?
Because there’s more to us than that one capacity even if we are not yet fully aware of it.
What does that even mean?
Yes, there is. We have within us — all of us — the ability to make crap up. For example, when I was young, I thought that I was safe at night only if I was touching cotton. This belief was as real as any religion you might care to name, yet it was also as false. Luckily, the universe provides wonder and meaning far beyond anything such childhood fancies could come up with.
Also, the Argument from Tinkerbell is at least as good as any other argument for the existence of god that I’ve read.
Yea, we like to call “crap” the things which we dont fully comprehend, that are out of our control, its easier that way.
Oh, do tell, how is your crap better than the crap of every other indefensible appeal to the supernatural?
I just got Poe’d, didn’t I?
No, JC is for real.
Hi, JC! :)
Oh. Wow. There are many things I didn’t fully comprehend as a child, and I’m happy to call them crap, but I did not know this established the existence of god. You live, you learn.
Hey LRA, all my very best to you and your’s this holiday season, stay warm!
Fraser, perhaps you are on to something. Christ said Himself that we would have to become as “little children” to see, to enter into the present reality of the the kingdom in the here and now. He also said that we couldn’t see it with our natural eyes, but that the kingdom of God/Heaven was literally within us.
For too long now we have been captive to the limiting realm of the senses, to our physical eyes. Maybe it’s time we began to truly “see” with the eyes of our hearts, our innermost man. But first, we’d have to believe wouldn’t we.
“Religion” is not what Christ offers, not even close. All the best.
how are the senses limiting? Wear a blindfold and see how long you can go without a stubbed toe. Is it that open eyes limit our capacity for stubbed toes? That’s the only limit I can see our senses imposing…
This reminds me of the crisis of faith scene in Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus’ (Bjorn, at least is an atheist, by the way, and Benny probably leans that way, too) musical (opera, really) Kristina från Duvemåla. Kristina has been through all kinds of trials which have collaborated to suggest that the God she has always believed in may not exist at all. Naturally, this is profoundly troubling to her. How does she deal with it? In the aria “Du Måste Finnas” (“You Must Exist”) she lays out her case against God, admits she’s having trouble believing now, but nevertheless “resolves” the issue by declaring, “No, you must exist! Without you I’m a splinter on a dark and story sea.”
(Here’s Helen Sjöholm singing the song, in case anyone’s interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk76_iqw-Pc&feature=related)
The song is heartrending. I rarely can hear it through without tearing up. We can all empathize with somebody who’s going through the agony of such a crisis. We’d be inhuman if we didn’t hurt along with them. Even so, what restores Kristina’s faith is nothing but her perceived need of God–an emotive impulse–not observation or sound reasoning. However we may “feel for” her, we have to recognize that this isn’t good enough, certainly not to resolve questions of this magnitude.
Sweet! Oompa-Loompas exist! Now I just need to somehow visit Loompaland with enough Hershey’s to bribe one home to do my housework whilst singing moralistic songs.
This is how brainwashing works.
People need logic for something that happens to them even if there is no logic in it. The logic makes then feel in control and safe, so the brain zould even invent fake stories just to make it logical.
Many experiments with hypnotized people exist and people that tested people by providing fake photo’s in a album. When the researches asked questions about the photo’s and they came across the fake photo, people even created an imaginary person and thought it to be real. I mean this person is clearly on the picture so he must have been there.
Good point Olaf!
I don’t know if I can fully agree about applying this rationale to a Being that may or may not exist equally in truth though. That is, with no way of knowing one way or the other for certain, we’re still left with a logical conundrum aren’t we? So we can either, make a choice to believe (theist), or a choice not to believe (atheist) with equal conviction and be neither right, nor wrong. Objective knowledge of God’s existence “appears” impossible!” The choice one way or the other is entirely “subjective.” That’s the way it is!
We can also choose, not to choose, suspending judgment and choice altogether. To be truly “logical” with intellectual means only, and maintain scientific integrity, this would be the safest position, the agnostic position. However, many choose to believe for whatever reason because they may find God in a personal way unique and real to their particular consciousness (intuition). You nor I, could not fully relate to this person’s unscientific attainment of this knowledge of God because we can not literally dwell in that person’s mind with them. That is their lone, living, subjective experience, and only theirs. One can not really say such a person is lying or mistaken to say they believe God exists with certainty. To say more than that becomes really problematic.
Nor does the believer have to assent to any humanly-conceived institutional theology, edicts, doctrines or derived precepts. If anything, the believer enjoys his or her realization for what it is (mysteriously) but “wants to share this knowledge” (albeit inaccurately) with others. As humans that’s how we are. You will either relate in a similar way, or you wont. Often, there’s just a “feeling” leading to a knowing, with no physical encounter or words ever said. An idea is real too, existing on the mental plane. . . and eventually does produce a real effect. Theoretically, God may exist in one’s mind or outside one’s mind, tor both places at the same time. . .or not at all. Again, the logical conudrum. To say more than that is to be creating theology which is not equal to one’s subjectively true belief.
How the believer is going to express their life to the World is going to be affected by their belief. At that point, God, that is, that person’s subjective (possibly objective) God is going to become real in our physical world via their actions, nonetheless. Actions that germinate from belief attained intuitively, culturally and/or maybe by an actual, extraordinary divine encounter, NOT impossible, is going to effect our World, the whole physical plane, in a very real way. In speculaltion, humans and all creatures may be God’s tributaries, all living, breathing, consuming, and sexing “physical matter”; matter itself only another expression or emanation of God’s Being (Pantheism).
Yes! Brainwashing is entirely possible and all too pervasive in the World. In this instance, one sort of rents another person’s idea of God. It’s a shame to live one’s entire life in this disingenuous way. Unfortunately, too many do. Whatever comes forth from them will probably be impotent, lacking in sustaining vitality for the most part. That’s the saddest existence, life lived in quiet despair, perpetually unsatisfied. This is often why, when we meet someone who talks about an institutional God, we feel so doubtful.
If this argument holds, people are going to need to do a *lot* of clapping.
YAY for Argumentum ad Tinkerbellam!
How’s this argument?
God’s real because he [God] told me so.
Kind of hard to argue against the word’s of God when you hear them for yourself. I’m guessing you haven’t heard God’s voice ever and I’m not surprised. Hard to explain why, I’m just not. It’s a blessing that God gives to some, but not all to know for a surety.Why? I don’t know, ask Him. God answers all questions in time, even if you don’t recognize the answer.
“Kind of hard to argue against the word’s of God when you hear them for yourself.”
Argument from Authority Fail.
“I’m guessing you haven’t heard God’s voice ever and I’m not surprised.”
Yes we know, you are special. Go stroke that ego!
“God answers all questions in time, even if you don’t recognize the answer.”
Just like the Palm Reader down the street from me.
“Argument from Authority Fail.”
Actually, it’s an argument that you cannot comprehend without faith.
“Yes we know, you are special. Go stroke that ego!”
I’m not boasting, just being honest. XD It’s not my fault if God thinks I’m special. But let me tell you, God thinks your special too and he has a plan for you in your life to bring you back to him as well. ^_^ Your plan that God made for you is different than mine. Thus why we have different experiences in life both naturally and supernaturally. That’s my own little philosophy right there. :)
“Just like the Palm Reader down the street from me”
Palm reader’s don’t answer questions. They only bring up more questions that are subjective to each individual person depending on what you want to hear. With God on the other hand, if you do not recognize his answer, it’s because it was not what you wanted nor expected. Likewise, you were not looking out for it.
Before you go on believing god actually talked to you, I would be suspicious of a god that doesn’t talk to everyone, playing favorites like that – only you know, he loves everyone, but he doesn’t want to tell us, he wants YOU to tell us! That sounds like wishful thinking and then some, by which I mean mentally ill, hallucinations, you knew that was coming, but god is imaginary and impossible.
“I’m guessing you haven’t heard God’s voice ever and I’m not surprised.”
You hear and actual “voice” and ascribe it to god?