By by VorJack
The Tim Minchin clip from last week reminded me of a theory that was going around for a while.
The pseudonymous Christoph Luxenberg wrote a work titled A Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran, in which he maintained that Muhammad and other early Muslims incorporated certain words and phrases from Aramaic into their Arabic. He also wrote that early Islam was influenced by Syrian Christianity.
So far, fairly plausible. He argued that these realizations allowed certain confusing parts of the Qur’an to be more clearly translated.
His most famous example deals with what the Muslim martyrs could expect in the afterlife. Luxenburg argues that the Arabic huri, or “virgins”, is actually a mistranslation of the Aramaic/Syriac word for “white grapes” or raisins, hur.
Can’t say whether it’s accurate or not. But if it is, then someone’s in for a disappointment.
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12 Comments
I rather think they’re in for disappointment regardless. Well, not exactly; It’s hard to be disappointed when you don’t exist anymore.
I have never really understood why having virgins was an important part of the afterlife. Does it mean that after death we have a physical body or is there some special type of spiritual sex I haven’t heard of?
There is also the question of if you get an unending supply of virgins to keep the number at 72.
According to the hadiths (sayings, teachings, commands of Muhammad), men (and not just those who blow themselves up) will get what is essentially an unending, eternal supply of virgins and / or wives (there are two words used in the hadiths). If you want to have fun, go ask a scholar if women can have a supply of men. Or better – a supply of women.
The grape story is oh-so-funny and has been going around for *years.* “Hey look! A white European has to tell them Ayrabs and Moozlims about their own language and scripture!” However, when one knows anything about Islam, it is really an unlikely mistake, given that the bits about the virgins, sex, and stream of wives are repeated in the hadith. I had a post that Daniel linked to last year about this, but unfortunately the blog that it was on had to be taken down because the owner received threats and spam and harassment over hosting the writings of an ex-Muslim. Perhaps I shall encourage other ex-Muslim bloggers (the ones who are still left, since many have quit) to do a write-up on this for the benefit of people who wish to mock Islam.
(Hey, mock away, but get it right. The idea that men who live righteously get an unending supply of women for eternity while their wives are – in orthodox theology – tied to them monogamously and that their gift in paradise is that “jealousy doesn’t exist”is worthy of mockery and scorn.)
I thought it was supposed to be 72 Virginians. There was no mention of what type, East or West.
Well, since the entire premise of all of them is a bunch of BS, no matter what fairytale they follow, I think they would be disappointed if there were any neural activity after death. But since they’ll be dead, I guess it really doesn’t matter.
I think we are actually getting somewhere, now.
You get the virgins but they are dried up old prunes – now that’s more like the truth.
Of course, a large number of prunes will give anyone the shits, which brings us nicely back to Islam, again.
It’s a pity that he has to write under a pseudonym. The first thing I want to know about anybody who comes up with a controversial etymology is where they got their degree, what they wrote their grad thesis on, etc. Example of parlor etymology by unschooled “scientist”:
“The identity of Tutankhamun can be explained as follows:
In my opinion, the evidence is incontrovertible that King Saul = Echnaton (Akhenaten), King David = Sethos and King Solomon = Ramses II with Shishak = Ramses III.
Accordingly, Tutankhamun can only be ATON, i.e. JON-ATHON (“young Aton, young Adonis, “Jaun-(IE)donis”).” Andis Kaulins
A recent episode of the excellent podcast “Reasonable Doubts” covered this very point, interviewing Islamic scholar Ibn Warraq. Much recommended!
I like grapes.
But I’d never say they were to die for.
And virgins are seriously over rated.
Oh, and Steve? There’s a big difference between prunes and raisins.
Now if it were a sultana I can see where it could have created confusion.
Let’s see if I can get the quotes to work…
Perhaps they’re hoping for some royal ass…
I tend to agree with the Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Quran. The smattering of Aramaic words in the text of the Quran, in their context, do make much more sense if they are Aramaic rather than Arabic. There is a lot of overlap between the two languages, even to this day. For instance Lebanese Arabic is half-Aramaic.
LOL yes, our famous Finikiyeen brothers who cannot stand to be in the company of the rest of the Arabs by saying they are Arab.
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